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  • Not.. to me.

    I have a lot of friends in the Russian Diaspora. The majority of them hate Putin and didn't like Trump's talk on Putin during the election.
    Most of those friends are also Russian American Jews, and they really don't like Putin's support for Syria and facilitating the pipeline of weapons into Lebanon to fuel Hezbollah.
    I'm a Jewish American, and a Zionist, and Trump's mindless caving to AIPAC's bullshit doesn't make me or any of my Zionist friends happy as AIPAC continues to pull their "support the ruling party in Israel or you're an anti-Semite" nonsense no matter how horrible BeBe is being.
    Losing people in 9/11 and whichever airport bombing you're talking about doesn't really say, "vote for the guy the anti-terrorism agencies of the US all pretty much decried as being horrible on actual anti-terrorism policies."

    So yeah, that doesn't outline a sufficient case to me in the slightest.

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    • Okay, see, I know you're lying. Because, I don't know what part of the US you're from, but the Russian diaspora in NYC voted for Trump AND they support Putin, because he is a strong leader.. The Middle-Eastern Jews predominantly voted for Trump.

      Also - unless you ever lost someone in a terror attack, you never get to judge. Like, literally never. I'm not going to go into details of why I think so, but "horrible anti-terrorism" policies are better than the ones before.

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      • Originally posted by Silver_Smoulder View Post
        Okay, see, I know you're lying.
        Nope, you just know what you can see with your head up your ass.

        You do realize that south Brooklyn does not actually represent all American Russian Jews right?

        Because, I don't know what part of the US you're from, but the Russian diaspora in NYC voted for Trump AND they support Putin, because he is a strong leader.
        And the Philly Russian Diaspora voted Clinton and hate Putin. So yeah, wow, people aren't monolithic groups, and just saying, "I'm an American Russian Jew from Brooklyn that's a Zionist" doesn't actually mean, "it's clear that Trump was my guy!" Especially since the age spread in your demographic there wasn't exactly even.

        70% of Jews voted Clinton, 25% voted Trump... and that 25% is not a solid block of Russian American Jews.

        The Middle-Eastern Jews predominantly voted for Trump.
        I can't find any reports that back up this claim. Given that the Mizrahi American Jewish community is so small, reliable polling is going to be extremely difficult. Can you point me to a source here?

        Also - unless you ever lost someone in a terror attack, you never get to judge.
        Goody. I get to judge. Though I didn't actually judge anything there. I made the point that "lost friends to terror attacks" doesn't mean, "vote for the guy that experts all say will be crappy for preventing more terror attacks."

        I'm not going to go into details of why I think so, but "horrible anti-terrorism" policies are better than the ones before.
        Considering "horrible" in this case means, "are high risk to allow more attacks," I think this does merit more detail to lend credence to.

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        • Originally posted by Silver_Smoulder View Post
          Okay, see, I know you're lying. Because, I don't know what part of the US you're from, but the Russian diaspora in NYC voted for Trump AND they support Putin, because he is a strong leader.. The Middle-Eastern Jews predominantly voted for Trump.

          Also - unless you ever lost someone in a terror attack, you never get to judge. Like, literally never. I'm not going to go into details of why I think so, but "horrible anti-terrorism" policies are better than the ones before.
          I'm not part of the Eastern European Jewish diaspora, nor do I have friends/family in Israel, nor did I lose any family members in the 9/11 attacks, nor do I work in counter terrorism.

          My best friend is all of those things though, and I have obtained his permission to tell you that he goddamn despises Trump.

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          • To be a bit fair, I'm half Ukrainian by ethnicity, which qualifies me as half Eastern European, but that half of the family being from the solidly "Ukrainian, not Russian there's a difference," side of Ukraine provides me with a very different cultural attitude regarding Putin and how Trump's talk about Putin and Russia impacts my feelings towards him compared to the current climate in the more recent Russian Jewish immigration to south Brooklyn.

            There is also a lot of differences between the Jews that came from Russia to the US after the fall of the Tsars, after WII and the Stalin purges, and after the fall of the Soviet Union regarding a number of political issues.

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            • And now a Syrian airfield is taken out and the alt right claim to be abandoning the 'Trump Train' left and right.

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              • Originally posted by nofather View Post
                And now a Syrian airfield is taken out and the alt right claim to be abandoning the 'Trump Train' left and right.
                Can I see some articles elaborating on this? I would have thought the alt-right would be supportive of a "tough" move like launching an airstrike. That it was done without waiting for congressional permission would be icing on the cake.


                On the frontier of the Wild South, there's only one woman with the grit to take on its most dangerous outlaws and bring them Back Alive, or Maybe Dead.

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                • Originally posted by semicasual View Post
                  Can I see some articles elaborating on this? I would have thought the alt-right would be supportive of a "tough" move like launching an airstrike. That it was done without waiting for congressional permission would be icing on the cake.
                  You could look at their tweets. Richard Spencer called it a 'Total Betrayal' and condemned the thing, David Duke is using it as an example to suggest the 'Zio Deep State' is a thing. If you want you could check out /pol/, though it's got as many neocons as it does alt-righters. Ah, here's an article. Looks like various alt-right websites are talking about it as a betrayal too.

                  They didn't want any more war in the Middle East until America is 'sorted out' and support governments using harsh methods to fight rebellion.
                  Last edited by nofather; 04-07-2017, 11:32 AM.

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                  • Originally posted by nofather View Post
                    And now a Syrian airfield is taken out and the alt right claim to be abandoning the 'Trump Train' left and right.
                    One of the few things I actually find myself glad that Trump has done.

                    While I'm not a fan of the US being the world's police officer, and I've been against involvement in Syria since day one, at the same time I think there are some actions that are so monstrous and inhuman they demand a response. And the US, as a country that can respond to those nightmarish actions, must respond. In fact, a failure to respond not only sees other people hurt, but hurts and diminishes the US as well. Dropping chemical weapons on a civilian population, on women and children, is one of those actions.

                    I always felt that the way Obama drew a hard line about the Syrian conflict and yet, when al-Asaad crossed it back in 2013 and used chemical weapons, the US did nothing, was serious blow to the US' integrity and moral standing. I understand, of course, that Obama wanted to get permission from Congress and was denied, but all the same it turned into a heavy blow to US prestige, not to mention that it encouraged al-Assad and other tyrants to believe that they could use chemical weapons against their own people and the world would do nothing.

                    I'm uncertain if Trump has exceed his authority as president, by launching an attack against a foreign government. If so, there needs to be some kind of punishment. But I even if it was the wrong political choice (and if it was then he needs to be punished up to and including impeachment) nevertheless I think it was the right moral choice.

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                    • Originally posted by AnubisXy View Post
                      I think it was the right moral choice.
                      Maybe. That depends a lot on what his reasons were for doing it, and what he does next.

                      An aquaintance of mine today asked the question (paraphrased) - "He launches tomahawk missiles at somebody to punish a crime they committed against their own country. No Americans or their allies were threatened. What would it take for him to launch a nuke at North Korea?" Armed conflict isn't something that anyone should enter into casually or impulsively. The consequences of doing so may be so destructive that questions like "who started it" or "who deserved it" will lose all meaning.

                      I agree that Assad is dangerous and that Syria may never know peace while he holds power. But it concerns me that some nasty news footage and public outcry is all it took for Ol' Donny Boy to basically commit an act of war, without congressional approval. Now Russia is sending a missile frigate to the Mediterranean. This could escalate very quickly if cooler heads do not prevail.



                      On the frontier of the Wild South, there's only one woman with the grit to take on its most dangerous outlaws and bring them Back Alive, or Maybe Dead.

                      Avatar by K.S. Brenowitz

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                      • Originally posted by semicasual View Post
                        An aquaintance of mine today asked the question (paraphrased) - "He launches tomahawk missiles at somebody to punish a crime they committed against their own country. No Americans or their allies were threatened. What would it take for him to launch a nuke at North Korea?" Armed conflict isn't something that anyone should enter into casually or impulsively. The consequences of doing so may be so destructive that questions like "who started it" or "who deserved it" will lose all meaning.

                        I agree that Assad is dangerous and that Syria may never know peace while he holds power. But it concerns me that some nasty news footage and public outcry is all it took for Ol' Donny Boy to basically commit an act of war, without congressional approval.
                        To be fair that's not quite accurate. It's meant to be because the world has, for the most part but including Syria, banned the use of chemical weapons and all evidence points to Assad having been them against the rebels in his country despite this.

                        It's a globalist move, supporting a UN convention, which is part of why the alt-right dislikes it so much.
                        Last edited by nofather; 04-07-2017, 03:32 PM.

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                        • This is all assuming that the theory about Trump warning russia about the strike so that Putin could warn Asad is wrong and that this whole thing isn't a huge distraction from something worse

                          https://wonkette.com/615283/trump-co...ld-he-naaaaaah


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                          • Yes, it would be an easy obfuscation, and necessary considering the evidence keeps piling up.

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                            • Originally posted by The young man in the cafe View Post
                              This is all assuming that the theory about Trump warning russia about the strike so that Putin could warn Asad is wrong and that this whole thing isn't a huge distraction from something worse

                              https://wonkette.com/615283/trump-co...ld-he-naaaaaah
                              I think it's obvious that the US government informed Russia and Syria that this was going to happen. We don't want to get into a war with Syria. Nor get into a war with Russia (whether directly or by proxy). Really, nobody wants the US to get into a war with Syria or Russia other than the neocons and, I guess some liberals who hate Trump? Who seem to be mad that he didn't kill a bunch of Syrian soldiers, in effect unilaterally declaring war on Syria? Strange people seem to be upset he didn't do that.

                              Ultimately this attack was intended to primarily be a symbolic one, letting al-Assad know that there will be consequences if he continues to use chemical weapons against civilians. It was the equivalent of a police officer shooting his gun into the air as a warning, or intentionally missing the suspect to let him know that there he needs to stop doing whatever he's currently doing.

                              It's something I think Obama should have done back in 2013 when al-Assad first used chemical weapons. So, a long time in coming but better late than never.

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                              • Nothing about this has an upside to me. The moron in chief doing this or Americans firing more missiles at people.


                                “As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.”

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