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  • Multiverse and philosphy

    https://www.google.ca/amp/www.theatl...ndroid-bell-ca

    I found this interesting and it echoes some of my own thoughts.

    If the multiverse theory is true it means we are all in heaven and in he'll at the same time, it means we are all godlike and pointlessly weak.

    It means paradox isn't a flaw in your theory, its a cosmic truth.

    Think about there are an infinite amount of universes in which you lives life so fucking amazing you can't even concieve of them in this life and lives so sickeningly horrific of such suffering that it should terrify you.

    If one applies the gaia theory to the mulitverse what you effectively get is an organism or god that is Lovecraftian in its essence, that proves every religion right and wrong, were God is omnibelevent and ominpresent, but also Ominmalevent and ignorant.

    Its a Multiverse of many Gods, One God, and No God, all at once and we are in the belly of the beast in a state of blind gnosis without realizing it. And there is no escape for any of us.

  • #2
    There's a few things a bit confused about the essay.

    The Many-Worlds interpretation of quantum mechanics only leads to separate worlds when widely different outcomes for a macroscopic event depend directly on a microscopic event and even then, the outcomes must obey energy conservation.

    So for instance there isn't a world where the asteriod didn't kill the dinosaurs, because the asteroid's path doesn't depend on microscopic particles, but on the large scale phenomena of gravity.

    Also it is possible to test it, it's just the equipment required is prohibitively large at the moment (I can retrieve the details from Robert Omnes' "The interpretation of quantum mechanics").

    That said, currently the Many-World's interpretation and the Modern Copenhagen interpretation (i.e. "The world is fundamentally random") are the only ones with complete experimental support.

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    • #3
      Could a chain of eventual occur that leads to something diverting the Asteriod'a path or lead to the Asteroid destruction or never forming?

      gravity and it's negative energy is influenced by matter and it's positive energy and vis versa so it doesn't seem like it would be completely uninfluenced by microscopic particles especially when said effects combine to lead to Marco scopic events.

      If the actions of particles in one reality lead me to drop a bowling ball off the CN tower to the ground way down below in one reality, but a change in those particles leads me to drop it only a short distance on my foot instead while on top of the CN tower, the effect on gravity of the boweling ball and the earth is different in each reality.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Omegaphallic View Post
        Could a chain of eventual occur that leads to something diverting the Asteriod'a path or lead to the Asteroid destruction or never forming?
        An atomic level event has basically zero chance of diverting an asteroid. A nuclear bomb barely budges them, so an electron going up or down a few shells in an atom is not going to do anything, even taking the cumulative effect of such events over billions of years. The Asteroid never forming is largely a consequence of the birth of the Sun, which again obeys classical fluid mechanics.

        Originally posted by Omegaphallic View Post
        gravity and it's negative energy is influenced by matter and it's positive energy and vis versa so it doesn't seem like it would be completely uninfluenced by microscopic particles especially when said effects combine to lead to Marco scopic events.
        One would think so, i.e. Macroscopic things are made up of microscopic things, so initially one might think microscopic events would affect them. However macroscopic events are only affected by aggregate properties of microscopic particles, e.g. the average motion of the trillions of particles that make up a millimeter of my skin, not on the specific properties of individual particles, i.e. the energy of one electron in a given atom. It's only the later that displays quantum mechanical effects. And it is only the later one can exploit to make multiple worlds.

        Originally posted by Omegaphallic View Post
        If the actions of particles in one reality lead me to drop a bowling ball off the CN tower to the ground way down below in one reality, but a change in those particles leads me to drop it only a short distance on my foot instead while on top of the CN tower, the effect on gravity of the boweling ball and the earth is different in each reality.
        Yes, but the thing is, there is really no scenario where quantum effects in particles causes this big a gap in macroscopic outcomes.

        For instance let's say the main decider here is your brain. The states "Throw ball" and "Drop ball" as mental choices are separated by requiring billions of atoms to occupy different states. This requires that entire multi-billion atom system to hold two states at once, what quantum mechanics calls a superposition. However superpositions become more unlikely and unstable the more something is:
        (a) hotter
        (b) affected by the outside world

        Our brains are just too hot and interactive to sustain it.

        You'll only get superposition of the states of an individual atom, not something which will affect our brain, not the whole system.

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        • #5
          So it's an infinate amount of universes that are almost identical, it's something I'll have to look into. It plausible.

          Still for the sake of this philosophical debate, I'm assuming that it effects macroevents somehow.

          If that's how it actually works or not is a separate discussion.

          I still value your impute.
          Last edited by Omegaphallic; 01-30-2017, 08:17 PM.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by An Fhuiseog View Post
            An atomic level event has basically zero chance of diverting an asteroid. A nuclear bomb barely budges them, so an electron going up or down a few shells in an atom is not going to do anything, even taking the cumulative effect of such events over billions of years. The Asteroid never forming is largely a consequence of the birth of the Sun, which again obeys classical fluid mechanics.
            I'm only passingly familiar with the topic, but from what I took away from the idea behind the "Many Worlds" concept is that while sub-atomic level events can't affect macro events, they can exert somewhat more influence on microscopic events.

            For example, sub-atomic level events could theoretically manipulate the chances of successful fertilization between a particular sperm and an egg which can lead to very different outcomes.

            Imagine a world in which, instead of the sperm cell that led to Adolf Hitler's birth, a different sperm cell reached his mother's egg first and it happened to carry an X chromosome instead of a Y, so in this world "Adolf Hitler" had been born as a woman. Even if most of the same events occurred in both worlds, she probably would never have been able to rise to the same level of power and undoubtedly the history of that world would end up being somewhat different from our own.

            So the idea of a world where a meteor didn't wipe out the dinosaurs isn't really possible, but the idea of a world in which a quantum-level effect led to the successful fertilization of a different sperm cell, leading Genghis Khan to die when he was a child from leukemia and therefore he wasn't able to unite and lead the Mongols to their conquests, would be possible, at least according to that theory.

            That would mean that, for the most part, while the geological history of the world would be the same, human history could be very different.

            Again I'm only passingly familiar with the subject, but is that about accurate?

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            • #7
              I wouldn't say that it would be impossible for a female Hitler to gain power, Europe had powerful Queens and even some female Kings (female monarchs who chose a masculate title in the hopes of conveying more dominance).

              So it's possible that on shear force of personality a female Hilter still could have gained power, a powerful enough personality can over come many challenges, and as evil as Hilter was he, or in this case she was a master manipulator, preying on the pains and fears of a population that had been brutalized under unrealistic demands for reparations that made people deseperate enough they would turn to even a delusional tyrant for an end to it. Simply being female and any taboos against female leadership of the time period, would not arrest such a confluence of events and personal traits.

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              • #8
                I like to think maybe some other effect we don't know about effects macro events.


                My Savannah Setting can be found here

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by The young man in the cafe View Post
                  I like to think maybe some other effect we don't know about effects macro events.
                  Possibly. There is a version of many worlds theory that actually suggests that universes interacting with each other is what causes quantum effects. I look it up.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Omegaphallic View Post
                    So it's possible that on shear force of personality a female Hilter still could have gained power, a powerful enough personality can over come many challenges, and as evil as Hilter was he, or in this case she was a master manipulator, preying on the pains and fears of a population that had been brutalized under unrealistic demands for reparations that made people deseperate enough they would turn to even a delusional tyrant for an end to it. Simply being female and any taboos against female leadership of the time period, would not arrest such a confluence of events and personal traits.
                    Alright, let's go with the one where the sperm that reached the egg carried the genes that caused Hitler to be born with harlequin ichthyosis (or some other horrific genetic mutation) and he died before he was a year old. That would probably have had some effect on history taking a slightly different turn than where it went in our world.

                    Or just imagine someone who is born to biracial parents. Depending on which sperm cell reaches his mother's egg, he could be born with black skin and black hair or he could be born with white skin and white hair. He is likely to face very different challenges in life depending on what sort of physical features he ends up inheriting, and while these challenges and differences could be minor, they could also end up shaping his life in very different ways, which could end up having a broader impact on the world.

                    This is more where my understanding of multi-world effects lay - that quantum changes could theoretically affect something the size of a sperm in such a way that which sperm cell ends up fertilizing an egg could be different even with every other event being identical. Different sperm reaching an egg can cause people to be born with different physical traits, which can (in various ways) have an effect on the sort of course someone's life ends up taking.

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                    • #11
                      https://www.google.ca/amp/www.nature...erses-real.htm

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by AnubisXy View Post

                        Alright, let's go with the one where the sperm that reached the egg carried the genes that caused Hitler to be born with harlequin ichthyosis (or some other horrific genetic mutation) and he died before he was a year old. That would probably have had some effect on history taking a slightly different turn than where it went in our world.

                        Or just imagine someone who is born to biracial parents. Depending on which sperm cell reaches his mother's egg, he could be born with black skin and black hair or he could be born with white skin and white hair. He is likely to face very different challenges in life depending on what sort of physical features he ends up inheriting, and while these challenges and differences could be minor, they could also end up shaping his life in very different ways, which could end up having a broader impact on the world.

                        This is more where my understanding of multi-world effects lay - that quantum changes could theoretically affect something the size of a sperm in such a way that which sperm cell ends up fertilizing an egg could be different even with every other event being identical. Different sperm reaching an egg can cause people to be born with different physical traits, which can (in various ways) have an effect on the sort of course someone's life ends up taking.
                        That could act like dominos setting off a change of events that change countless things.

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                        • #13
                          Note that this is quite different from many-worlds, it's just been given a similar name.

                          In the Many-Worlds theory, the worlds are branching, that is they split from each other and share the same past.

                          In the theory above, it's several totally independent universes interacting, all with different histories and each universe individually obeys classical mechanics rather than quantum mechanics. So this is actually a separate theory from Quantum Mechanics, but it attempts to replicate its predictions (but there are still many predictions they can't replicate)

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by AnubisXy View Post

                            I'm only passingly familiar with the topic, but from what I took away from the idea behind the "Many Worlds" concept is that while sub-atomic level events can't affect macro events, they can exert somewhat more influence on microscopic events.

                            For example, sub-atomic level events could theoretically manipulate the chances of successful fertilization between a particular sperm and an egg which can lead to very different outcomes.

                            .....

                            That would mean that, for the most part, while the geological history of the world would be the same, human history could be very different.

                            Again I'm only passingly familiar with the subject, but is that about accurate?
                            That would be accurate, I'm not sure in the case of fertilisation as I've never seen a calculation concerning something that size and chemically active. I'll check the literature.

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                            • #15
                              http://www.wired.co.uk/article/our-u...-is-a-hologram

                              An alternative theory of the universe just got a major boost, is it compatible with any of the multiverse theories like inflation, many world's, interacting many worlds, ect...?

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