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  • White Wolf hires Zak Smith - Im out!

    So..

    White Wolf has decided to hire Zak Smith for their new Vampire line.

    Zak Smith is a known harasser of freelance writers (amongst them David Hill who has written quite alot for Onyx path)

    http://failforward.co.uk/post/933487...ng-the-darkest
    https://storify.com/AndriErlingsson/...t-group-online
    http://ettinjiggywithit.tumblr.com/p...arassment-blog
    https://shawnstruck.blogspot.com/201...assment_5.html

    Im sorry, but with this desicion I will have to stop my financial support of both White Wolf and Onyx Path Publishing.




  • #2
    Umm, where is this information about him being hired, I can't make any sense of those links and there seems to be quite a bit of confusion. Your not coming across very clearly. Please clarify what I perceive to be a very big change since I never heard of Zak Smith working for Onyx Path.


    How can I know if what I claim I know to be true is rejecting the idea that there is something I might not know? How can I know if what I claim I don't know to be true is rejecting the idea that there is something I do know?
    -Zhuangzi

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Ostarion View Post
      Umm, where is this information about him being hired, I can't make any sense of those links and there seems to be quite a bit of confusion. Your not coming across very clearly. Please clarify what I perceive to be a very big change since I never heard of Zak Smith working for Onyx Path.

      Its on White Wolf home page. Check the blog for details.

      https://blog.white-wolf.com/2017/02/...riter-artists/

      Also on reddit, sort of. but I found it a bit hard to pick up as well.

      https://www.reddit.com/r/WhiteWolfRP..._and_mage_now/

      Clarification: I never said he was working for Onyx path. but this impacts my financial relationship with Onyx path as well.




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      • #4
        Originally posted by Ostarion View Post
        Umm, where is this information about him being hired, I can't make any sense of those links and there seems to be quite a bit of confusion. Your not coming across very clearly. Please clarify what I perceive to be a very big change since I never heard of Zak Smith working for Onyx Path.
        Here:

        https://blog.white-wolf.com/2017/02/...riter-artists/

        Just to clarify, never said he was working for OPP, but for White Wolf.

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        • #5
          Yeah, I'm probably out too for anything White Wolf puts forth, because even if I believed they'd actually found Mr. Smith not to be guilty of misconduct - and I sincerely doubt it - he's been roaming around on reddit posting as Shannon Applecline like a total dirtbag stalker. I'll still be buying OPP in all likelihood, even if Beast has somewhat cooled my ardour for the company, but my project won't be including nWW content so long as Mr. Smith is on their roster.
          Last edited by loomer; 02-18-2017, 05:33 PM.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Ephraim View Post

            Here:

            https://blog.white-wolf.com/2017/02/...riter-artists/

            Just to clarify, never said he was working for OPP, but for White Wolf.

            Oh, I see, sorry I don't visit that place. Well I am sure the community is sad to lose members. I am somewhat confused why you might not support onyx path for that reason, especially since they have their own properties like Scion, Aeon and Scarred lands that have nothing to do with white wolf.


            How can I know if what I claim I know to be true is rejecting the idea that there is something I might not know? How can I know if what I claim I don't know to be true is rejecting the idea that there is something I do know?
            -Zhuangzi

            Comment


            • #7
              This particular paragraph is pretty sickening:

              Regarding the recent accusations made against our freelancers: White Wolf was aware of and investigated the previous accusations against Zak before contracting him to write and illustrate the game script. Fortunately, these accusations all pertained to alleged online behavior: each accusation is connected to an online discussion, and the digital records of these discussions can be located and reviewed. White Wolf’s investigation concluded that the accusations are false, and that Zak did not engage in the alleged behavior. We have full faith in Zak and Sarah and are excited to see their great work with the World of Darkness spread!
              Especially when I've had a friend completely vanish off the internet due to this guy's (repeated and personal) harassment campaign. Not to mention that I remember allegations of non-online harassment, and it's ludicrous to say that every online interaction can have its records located and reviewed. Even then, the guy spent yesterday pretending to be noted RPG historian Shannon Appelcline on Reddit saying 'Zak S is a great guy', which is not behaviour I'd think a respectable company would appreciate from its freelancer: ​https://twitter.com/machineiv/status/832477423899783168

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              • #8
                Eh, I'll judge art for the art, not the artist.

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                • #9
                  I'm plenty capable of separating the work from the authorship; I've enjoyed my share of well written stories by real life dirtbags. Generally, not dirtbags participating in contemporary ongoing campaigns of harrassment where I can see palpable effects on innocent people. (It doesn't help that the excerpts I've seen indicate the work itself, in this case, is tone-deaf and unimpressive.)

                  White Wolf's lost faith entirely with me unless and until they do a harsh about-face on this. I'm not entirely comfortable with the notion that some of the money I pay for licensed Onyx Path products will funnel up to people willing to endorse this man with a big, enthusiastic smile, either. Shit is not good today.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Ostarion View Post


                    Oh, I see, sorry I don't visit that place. Well I am sure the community is sad to lose members. I am somewhat confused why you might not support onyx path for that reason, especially since they have their own properties like Scion, Aeon and Scarred lands that have nothing to do with white wolf.
                    Totally fine. WW is not really touting it at the moment.

                    I have mainly followed and supported OPP for their wonderful efforts in CofD / NWOD. Especially how they picked up and made the second editions.
                    I am glad I bought Werewolf the Forsaken 2nd edition before this happened.

                    Just to clarify my reasons: OPP and WW has a partnership. Meaning I would indirectly sponsor someone who has at a time done something I find completely distasteful.

                    I just cant do that.



                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Wurzel View Post
                      This particular paragraph is pretty sickening:



                      Especially when I've had a friend completely vanish off the internet due to this guy's (repeated and personal) harassment campaign. Not to mention that I remember allegations of non-online harassment, and it's ludicrous to say that every online interaction can have its records located and reviewed. Even then, the guy spent yesterday pretending to be noted RPG historian Shannon Appelcline on Reddit saying 'Zak S is a great guy', which is not behaviour I'd think a respectable company would appreciate from its freelancer: ​https://twitter.com/machineiv/status/832477423899783168

                      Well I am in no position to judge as I only heard of him recently, though his wiki page mentions nothing of this, whereas it usually does for other famous figures. For example, Dragon Quest, the video game series from Japan also has a controversal figure kown as Koichi Sugiyama known for his controversial stance opposing the existence of the Nanking Massacre, this is mentioned in his wiki page.

                      So, are we suddenly going to have a split community because of this one man (referring to Zak). It seems strange that one man has the power to cause this by sheer dint of his existence.


                      How can I know if what I claim I know to be true is rejecting the idea that there is something I might not know? How can I know if what I claim I don't know to be true is rejecting the idea that there is something I do know?
                      -Zhuangzi

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Ostarion View Post


                        So, are we suddenly going to have a split community because of this one man (referring to Zak). It seems strange that one man has the power to cause this by sheer dint of his existence.
                        This is based on what said person has done to other people.

                        Hypothetically: If someone here harassed you and stalked you on the internet, or here at the forums, Im pretty sure the moderators would step in and stop the harasser (banning him), not give him a job.


                        You should be allowed to express yourself, and to create art and all that. But in my opinion I think you should also be respectful and understand that by hiring someone like this you are sending a very clear message to your own community.

                        The fact that WW itself says they found "nothing wrong" with this really disturbs me.That they say "they are proud".. even worse..

                        I am sorry for all at OPP. I am sure they had no part in this.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          At the very least, I'm not buying any World of Darkness products from anyone, going forward. Going to have to think hard about buying CofD stuff since money from those purchases still flows back to White Wolf, which has attacked its own writers.


                          Mage: the Awakening 2E - Hogwarts: the Wizarding World Chronicle
                          Mummy: the Curse - Lightweight 2E Conversion; Disciples of Duat; Mortal Sekhem Sorcerers

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Octavo View Post
                            Going to have to think hard about buying CofD stuff since money from those purchases still flows back to White Wolf
                            Does it? Seems like they've just licensed it, so profits are all Onyx Path's.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Octavo View Post
                              At the very least, I'm not buying any World of Darkness products from anyone, going forward. Going to have to think hard about buying CofD stuff since money from those purchases still flows back to White Wolf, which has attacked its own writers.
                              While I get that, a fair number of those writers harrassed work on CoD. Last I remember, David Hill was still working on Changeling the Lost 2nd. And I'm saying this as someone who gets regular panic attacks every time it seems Zak rises up again as a sudden influx of unknown people try following me on social media. And I'm not even someone famous. I just wrote for Gaming As Women with other women who were targeted for harrassment. I consider a number of them friends and this situation upsets me extremely as I have strong feelings about Zak for my own reasons.



                              ​When noise turns to silence, when colors dull and pale, when reality no longer makes sense, there shall you find me. There, in the dreams of the River of Faceless Millions, do I dwell.

                              http://harenm.deviantart.com/gallery/ for my art.

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