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White Wolf hires Zak Smith - Im out!

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  • #61
    As a friendly reminder: info@whitewolf-publishing.com is their contact link.


    Remi. she/her. game designer.

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    • #62
      I hate to see this. I just wish White Wolf would stop sinking deeper, I wish the storm would stop. The maelstrom just won't stop raging.

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      • #63
        Originally posted by DrSharky View Post
        I hate to see this. I just wish White Wolf would stop sinking deeper, I wish the storm would stop. The maelstrom just won't stop raging.
        None of this surprises me. "Dracula" has been offensive and incompetent from day one.


        Remi. she/her. game designer.

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        • #64
          Originally posted by MachineIV View Post

          The police have been involved.

          The police are laughable at best with online harassment. I don't know if you've seen, but the FBI demonstrated that even with confessions, police don't tend to prosecute.

          http://uk.businessinsider.com/gamerg...17-2?r=US&IR=T

          What did the police tell me? "We can't be there 24/7, and they clearly know where you live. Maybe you should consider moving?"

          I did. The harassment continued.

          I left the country. At least now I know it can't be direct. I don't have to worry about stalkers photographing my children's schools.
          I don't know why some people have do fucked up stalker things, I remember talking with this nice young women who supported due process and how when she got raped, it was uncomfortable, but it was the right thing to do, and some asshole (I say that in a gender neutral way) actually set her a private message that said "you deserved to be raped", just because she didn't believe twitter was the right venue to make an accusation, wtf is wrong with people that they would say, such a thing.

          Bomb threats, Stalking, Swatting, Doxxing done by people across the political spectrum, Deplatforming, why can't people just keep their argument from including dangerous actions.

          I don't support a boycott because A) Boycotts backfire, just ask any movie that got boycotted that didn't suck, or Isreal, or Cassie Jaye, B) Boycotts fuck over innocent people, as well as the intended target, C) it will just escalate things further and his more zealous fans will likely take it out on David if Zak gets fired.

          I will message White Wolf and politely request that they make leaving David alone and not stirring shit up a term of Zak's continued employeement with the company.
          Last edited by Omegaphallic; 02-18-2017, 10:48 PM.

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          • #65
            Originally posted by atamajakki View Post
            As a friendly reminder: info@whitewolf-publishing.com is their contact link.
            I already contacted them, but thank you.

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            • #66
              Originally posted by atamajakki View Post

              None of this surprises me. "Dracula" has been offensive and incompetent from day one.
              Who are you calling Dracula? Just curious.

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              • #67
                Originally posted by Omegaphallic View Post

                I don't know why some people have do fucked up stalker things, I remember talking with this nice young women who supported due process and how when she got raped, it was uncomfortable, but it was the right thing to do, and some asshole (I say that in a gender neutral way) actually set her a private message that said "you deserved to be raped", just because she didn't believe twitter was the right venue to make an accusation, wtf is wrong with people that they would say, such a thing.

                Bomb threats, Stalking, Swatting, Doxxing done by people across the political spectrum, Deplatforming, why can't people just keep their argument from including dangerous actions.

                I don't support a boycott because A) Boycotts backfire, just ask any movie that got boycotted that didn't suck, or Isreal, or Cassie Jaye, B) Boycotts fuck over innocent people, as well as the intended target, C) it will just escalate things further and his more zealous fans will likely take it out on David if Zak gets fired.

                I will message White Wolf and politely request that they make leaving David alone and not stirring shit up a term of Zak's continued employeement with the company.
                The 'innocent people' you refer to are other employees of the actual target, which is White Wolf. The corporate entity is the target of the boycott, not Mr. Smith, and as a result any hardship incurred by employees of the company is down to the company's actions. Would you say 'don't boycott <a company that is actively polluting groundwater with toxic chemicals> because it might affect the warehouse workers'? As for them backfiring, sure - but they also work on a far, far more frequent basis than you give them credit for.

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                • #68
                  Originally posted by Omegaphallic View Post

                  I don't know why some people have do fucked up stalker things, I remember talking with this nice young women who supported due process and how when she got raped, it was uncomfortable, but it was the right thing to do, and some asshole (I say that in a gender neutral way) actually set her a private message that said &quot;you deserved to be raped&quot;, just because she didn't believe twitter was the right venue to make an accusation, wtf is wrong with people that they would say, such a thing.

                  Bomb threats, Stalking, Swatting, Doxxing done by people across the political spectrum, Deplatforming, why can't people just keep their argument from including dangerous actions.

                  I don't support a boycott because A) Boycotts backfire, just ask any movie that got boycotted that didn't suck, or Isreal, or Cassie Jaye, B) Boycotts fuck over innocent people, as well as the intended target, C) it will just escalate things further and his more zealous fans will likely take it out on David if Zak gets fired.

                  I will message White Wolf and politely request that they make leaving David alone and not stirring shit up a term of Zak's continued employeement with the company.
                  While I really appreciate the sentiment, I'm loathe to make it about me. He's called for boycotts of White Wolf products because we hired Anna Kreider once. He's done the same to my wife Filamena. He's done the same to Tracy Hurley. He's currently doing it to Avery Alder and Shannon Appelcline. Even if, in the off chance they find a way to get him to leave me alone, I'm just one person he's doing this shit to.


                  David A Hill Jr
                  Freelance Writer
                  Independent Game Designer

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                  • #69
                    Here's my take: I'll read, in time all the links here and other sites to have a more clear picture.

                    Right now, I see two groups, or rather one person and a definitive and very vocal group against him, accusing him of horrible things. I don't say he didn't do any of the those things (and if he did, I don't want to see him on WW's staff) he was accused of, because I just don't have enough information at this point and I won't take sides until I do.

                    However. I saw a lot of highly passionate debates in online discussions going wrong and accusations of (insert anything)phobic and such behavior when that wasn't really the case. I think every side has it's own extremists and echo chambers, it's narratives and obsessions. I saw how the WW staff was attacked on the Grand Masquerade Q&A and after that online, so I won't condemn this guy before I saw if what he wrote in the past and his interactions with people were really that bad. I won't participate in witch hunts, especially because I don't have any emotional or personal connection toward any of the sides in this, neither personal grievances.

                    Also what I see that a lot of people who already decided that they hate the new WW's direction/style/personnel/whatever have another thing to curse them about and saying how horrible they are, while a lot of other people enjoy the things they did, including these little games. Again, I don't have any particular preferences, because I didn't attend to any of their LARPS and didn't downloaded these games so far. If anything, I have serious concerns about how the new edition will turn out.

                    So, I'll wait, read and see how this thing will unfold and my condolences to anyone being harassed!


                    If nothing worked, then let's think!

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                    • #70
                      If they give into a Boycott Zak's fans will likely throw their own Boycott as a reaction, in addition to the more over zealous members possibly retaliating against David Hill.

                      I suggest a more measured approach like I took. David could easily end up getting fuck over in this in a vareity of ways here, if you ramp things up and makes things escalate even more by taking a total war approach, it will be David who ends up paying the price unfairly.

                      The best way to handle it is to pressure white wolf to use Zak's continued employment to push him to better behavior, if they fire him they have no leverage over him, and he and his fans can retaliate.

                      Let's play our cards wisely.

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                      • #71
                        His continued employment is undesirable, though.

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                        • #72
                          Originally posted by MachineIV View Post

                          While I really appreciate the sentiment, I'm loathe to make it about me. He's called for boycotts of White Wolf products because we hired Anna Kreider once. He's done the same to my wife Filamena. He's done the same to Tracy Hurley. He's currently doing it to Avery Alder and Shannon Appelcline. Even if, in the off chance they find a way to get him to leave me alone, I'm just one person he's doing this shit to.
                          I think my approach can be expanded to include others such as fellow employees of White Wolf.

                          Still your name has been made the most prominent here and you've vocal the most here and if any shit falls, you will likely to be the one who catches most of it.

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                          • #73
                            Originally posted by Omegaphallic View Post
                            If they give into a Boycott Zak's fans will likely throw their own Boycott as a reaction, in addition to the more over zealous members possibly retaliating against David Hill.

                            I suggest a more measured approach like I took. David could easily end up getting fuck over in this in a vareity of ways here, if you ramp things up and makes things escalate even more by taking a total war approach, it will be David who ends up paying the price unfairly.

                            The best way to handle it is to pressure white wolf to use Zak's continued employment to push him to better behavior, if they fire him they have no leverage over him, and he and his fans can retaliate.

                            Let's play our cards wisely.
                            Not to get too engaged here. But: I don't care.

                            I'm kinda like Enimem at the end of 8-Mile at this point. He's thrown everything he can at me. His goon squad has played their cards. I'm not afraid of them. I've seen what they're capable of. So while I really, really appreciate the sentiment, don't worry about me.


                            David A Hill Jr
                            Freelance Writer
                            Independent Game Designer

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                            • #74
                              Matt Johnson, Erenisch Ferres Predondo Fernando Cagri Moffett Slasher some talented BDSM comic artists who have great talent, and who have no issues with any freelancer or other employees of White Wolf or Onyx Path.

                              Very talented people who would be a huge asset to white wolf or onyx path and add some serious sizzle to the art, and well as a sense of horror, and they aren't stalkers!

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                              • #75
                                Originally posted by Omegaphallic View Post

                                I think my approach can be expanded to include others such as fellow employees of White Wolf.

                                Still your name has been made the most prominent here and you've vocal the most here and if any shit falls, you will likely to be the one who catches most of it.
                                I would worry more for white wolf as writers leave in protest. This guy is a piece of work from the looks of it.

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