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White Wolf hires Zak Smith - Im out!

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  • Ephraim
    started a topic White Wolf hires Zak Smith - Im out!

    White Wolf hires Zak Smith - Im out!

    So..

    White Wolf has decided to hire Zak Smith for their new Vampire line.

    Zak Smith is a known harasser of freelance writers (amongst them David Hill who has written quite alot for Onyx path)

    http://failforward.co.uk/post/933487...ng-the-darkest
    https://storify.com/AndriErlingsson/...t-group-online
    http://ettinjiggywithit.tumblr.com/p...arassment-blog
    https://shawnstruck.blogspot.com/201...assment_5.html

    Im sorry, but with this desicion I will have to stop my financial support of both White Wolf and Onyx Path Publishing.




  • hm8453a
    replied
    Somehow, when I saw a new post on this thread, I thought it would be related to a recent FB post, not someone shaming rape survivors.

    Leave a comment:


  • nofather
    replied
    Originally posted by Omegaphallic View Post
    and most of the accusations against James Deen weren't rape,
    But some are, and they aren't just 'jealous girlfriends.'

    Leave a comment:


  • Omegaphallic
    replied
    Originally posted by MachineIV View Post
    And now, Zak's taken to calling his victims "other James Deens." Which, if you're vaguely familiar, James Deen is a porn actor who has now been outed as a rapist by numerous women.

    He's literally calling his victims rapists.
    I looked into the James Deen situation heavily, he was no rapist, his girlfriend ex Stoya, learned that same day she made her accusation that James Deen was moving in with his new girlfriend Chantal Preston. James Deen has texts and stuff that shows she was obsessed with him, called him her heroine, ect..., just seriously scary stuff.

    and most of the accusations against James Deen weren't rape, they were that he was an asshole, like Bony Rotten was pissed because he made fun of her tattooes before sex with her (which I admit is ignorant, but she has not said anything about rape, just that he was a jerk, which the MSM has tossed onto the pile of accusations of rape, which made no sense and they did that with a bunch of stuff.

    there is so much information out there if you willing to do the research, but the MSM really wasn't willing to do any of the hard work an do even basic research into the matter, that fell to ordinary people.

    So using this poor victimized man as an insult to others really makes me mad. The more I hear about Zak, the more I find I don't like him.

    Leave a comment:


  • etherial
    replied
    Originally posted by Caitiff Primogen View Post
    Some people want to use this tool for escapism only, and indeed they are capable of constructing worlds wherein certain issues simply do not exist. Others want to use this tool for examining or entertaining different scenarios reflective of issues that exist outside of the game world, and construct their own worlds accordingly. This also isn't a binary division. Sometimes I want to bash orcs and not have to think about why, because in that world its objective truths are arranged such that questioning why is irrelevant because the answer is the one you already know. Other times I want to ask why we're bashing orcs, because that world is deliberately tailored to incorporate themes, historical context, cultural influences, and other information that makes asking that question rewarding.

    There is room for both of these things in the roleplaying hobby, because as mentioned previous the boundaries of what it can contain are determined solely by us. That doesn't stop people from questioning what they consider "appropriate" for it to contain though, because our own vision of the roleplaying really only contains a small fragment of its possibilities.
    The problem, as I see it, is not that these two ideas are in conflict, but that people have conflicting ideas about which worlds' "objective truths" allow for the purely escapist fantasy you describe.

    Leave a comment:


  • Charlaquin
    replied
    Originally posted by Caitiff Primogen View Post
    Other times I want to ask why we're bashing orcs, because that world is deliberately tailored to incorporate themes, historical context, cultural influences, and other information that makes asking that question rewarding.
    This, as a side note, is a big part of why I so adore the idea of a CofD fantasy shard. Even if I doubt I'll ever get around to running one, the thought is just delightful to me.

    Leave a comment:


  • Caitiff Primogen
    replied
    Originally posted by RomulusGloriosus View Post
    Many people, myself included, play WoD and CofD from the perspective of 'making things better in a world of darkness.' For some, that is the ultimate escapism - because you can actually fix something that in reality might take generations of organization, and so on.
    Whereas I tend to focus more on WoD and CofD as places of human darkness where there is neither closure nor meaning.

    And that's fine. We can have it both ways.

    Leave a comment:


  • RomulusGloriosus
    replied
    I agree with you Caitiff Primogen about neither being bad nor necessarily mutually exclusive. There's also the fact that exploring various situations, topics, and themes can also be escapism. A world in which all of the terrible things about our reality are real and need to be explored (and, for that matter, can be made better, at a much faster rate and with less tragedy.)

    Many people, myself included, play WoD and CofD from the perspective of 'making things better in a world of darkness.' For some, that is the ultimate escapism - because you can actually fix something that in reality might take generations of organization, and so on.

    Leave a comment:


  • Caitiff Primogen
    replied
    Here we get into what it is one of the greatest things about roleplaying games, as well as one of the core issues of introducing different topics and themes to the genre.

    Roleplaying games create simulations and hypotheticals whose boundaries are determined by solely by their participants. The only things which are true are the things we say are true and the things we say are true are objectively and irreproachably so.

    Some people want to use this tool for escapism only, and indeed they are capable of constructing worlds wherein certain issues simply do not exist. Others want to use this tool for examining or entertaining different scenarios reflective of issues that exist outside of the game world, and construct their own worlds accordingly. This also isn't a binary division. Sometimes I want to bash orcs and not have to think about why, because in that world its objective truths are arranged such that questioning why is irrelevant because the answer is the one you already know. Other times I want to ask why we're bashing orcs, because that world is deliberately tailored to incorporate themes, historical context, cultural influences, and other information that makes asking that question rewarding.

    There is room for both of these things in the roleplaying hobby, because as mentioned previous the boundaries of what it can contain are determined solely by us. That doesn't stop people from questioning what they consider "appropriate" for it to contain though, because our own vision of the roleplaying really only contains a small fragment of its possibilities.

    I could go on for pages about this, so I'm going to stop myself short.

    Leave a comment:


  • hm8453a
    replied
    Everything is politics. Bringing peace to two warring clans is certainly politics.

    Leave a comment:


  • wonderandawe
    replied
    Originally posted by Lucy Darling View Post

    Generally when I have been accused of 'bringing politics in' it is because my escapist fantasy is getting abruptly turned gross by titty armor, handsy guards, or other shitty remnants of real life and I have had the gall to say 'this isn't fun for me'.

    Does escapism only apply to them?
    I'm going to try to look at this from the other point of view.

    Though they won't use the term, these sorts of players use gaming as a "Safe Space". They have been bullied by stronger men and rejected by pretty women. Gaming was the one place they could relax and be themselves. Where they can vent their frustrations in a safe, but debatably healthy way. The problem we run into, is when these individuals start making gaming products. They don't understand the difference between "what flies at your personal gaming table" and "what flies in a professional game design and writing."

    Hell, this may be why women run into awkward situations at the gaming table. Their gaming tables have always had people from the same background they are. These players aren't use to having to adjust their behavior for mixed groups.

    One day, I would like to run an all woman's gaming group again. I've done so before. I'll expect it will not be politically correct and we will say some raunchy stuff. Yet, I will still be sensitive to the backgrounds of my players. One player is from India, so I will be respectful of her culture. One player is Mormon, so I'll be respectful of her religion. We will have sexy male characters and make off color jokes about them.

    But, if I ever break in to game writing, those characters will stay at my personal gaming table where they belong.
    Last edited by wonderandawe; 03-03-2017, 10:38 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Lucy Darling
    replied
    Originally posted by AnubisXy View Post
    Someone comes along and attempts to inject more real-life issues into their escapist fantasies because, "These mediums don't reflect real life enough."

    "And that's the whole point," retorts the guy who is using this as a way to escape from real-world issues.
    Generally when I have been accused of 'bringing politics in' it is because my escapist fantasy is getting abruptly turned gross by titty armor, handsy guards, or other shitty remnants of real life and I have had the gall to say 'this isn't fun for me'.

    Does escapism only apply to them?

    Leave a comment:


  • AnubisXy
    replied
    Originally posted by Ana Mizuki View Post
    A huge issue is also that a lot of bullied geeks and nerds create this feeling of superiority towards their bullies, rather than process what happened in a more healthy way. Bullying is dominance, whether by girls or boys are doing it, and so one method to cope is think YOU are better than THEM. All well and good until you are in a position to do it yourself.
    In my experience, quite a few of the more hardcore nerds and geeks use their hobby as a way of escaping from the problems of real life. They use table-top roleplaying, or video games, or wargaming or whatever as an escapist mechanism in order to get away from the problems of real life and all of the issues that they don't like dealing with. The vast majority of such people who use the medium as pure escapism honestly do not care about real-world issues such as sexism or racism. They're not personally racist or sexist, but at the same time they simply aren't interested in dealing with these kind of issues (or many other real-life issues) and get upset when they feel that those issues are getting pushed into their faces. The best description would be, "Aggressively indifferent."

    Someone comes along and attempts to inject more real-life issues into their escapist fantasies because, "These mediums don't reflect real life enough."

    "And that's the whole point," retorts the guy who is using this as a way to escape from real-world issues.

    He wants to deal with bringing peace to the warring Elf and Dwarf clans, not deal with more realistic racial or sexual discrimination like what you might see in real life. For him, if he wanted to deal with those issues, he could walk outside and deal with them any day of the week. But he doesn't want to deal with those real-world issues , which is why he is turning to escapism to avoid them in the first place. And this group tends to turn aggressive bullies when they find themselves accused of being racist/sexist/bigoted, etc, when they say they want their fantasy escape to remain a fantasy escape.

    So to a large degree, I think it comes down to a fundamental disagreement over what the purpose of what these sorts of past times (video games, TTRPGs, etc) is. For some people, these are art and it needs to reflect real-life issues. These people want to engage in these past times and see themselves and the issues they deal with reflected in it. And then for others it's just a way to escape and the entire point is that it gives you a chance to not see yourself and allow you to avoid any of the issues you deal with. Many simply don't understand why people would want to deal with real-world struggles and problems in escapist fantasy in the first place.

    I've found that when you can sit down and explain to them that different people have different expectations for entertainment and why it's important for some people to see themselves reflected in their hobby, most of them are willing to agree with that. Sure there are a few particularly toxic segments of the community who actually are racist/sexist/bigoted, but you'll find that in any hobby (just check out the car restoration crowd, holy crap do I have stories!)

    It's also worth remembering that in general with "nerd culture" when you're offline most nerds and geeks are pretty good people. I've been to lots of conventions and the vast majority of everyone is nice, polite, and friendly. It's just that when people get behind the anonymity of a computer screen they often turn into pieces of shit. If you judge any group (not just geek culture but any in general) based primarily on their anonymous on-line interactions, it's safe to say you'll probably come away with a pretty poor opinion of them.

    *EDIT*@Charlaquin I would say that the WW/OPP community is a bit better in this regard simply because WW/OPP games aren't really "fantasy" in the traditional sense. While there are certainly fantasy elements, most of WW/OPP's games have been grounded firmly in real life (especially the modern games). People who aren't interested in dealing with real-life issues probably tended to steer clear of WW/OPP games anyway. This tends to make the community much more welcoming of people exploring or discussing real-world issues than you will find in many other RPG communities.
    Last edited by AnubisXy; 03-02-2017, 06:18 PM.

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  • MercSet
    replied
    Originally posted by Ana Mizuki View Post

    A huge issue is also that a lot of bullied geeks and nerds create this feeling of superiority towards their bullies, rather than process what happened in a more healthy way. Bullying is dominance, whether by girls or boys are doing it, and so one method to cope is think YOU are better than THEM. All well and good until you are in a position to do it yourself.

    Much healthier is trying to figure out why it happened in the first place and move on from the role of a victim. For me, the moment I truly stopped being bitter, was when I heard the guy in my class who had bullied and beaten me, was now a shut in with no will to live. And I saw this athletic guy regress towards that state through the last spring of high school after a foot injury. It was difficult to watch and harder to hear he never recovered.
    Senior Year is when they start handing out Athletic Scholarships. He missed his prime

    Thats just empathy man. No one wants to see the bully cry. and like really mean it. It destroys the image we have in our head of a souless monster. A definite villian antagonist not worthy or understand of compassion or recognition of moral wrongdoing. It doesn't excuse the behavior or actions, it just makes people empathize with another person. It's why shows always have the villian either non repentant or "NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO BLAST NOT AGAIN! I'LL GET YOU NEXT TIME! " It's easier to shallow that hate all the way down.

    It's bullshit tribalism and demonizing the other. The Nerd Revenge Fantasy. Like most fantasy is rarely plays out like you really want in reality. (Thou I will still have a special place in my heart for the count of monte cristo and the natural of reprisal is a very natural and sometimes unavoidable reaction to victimhood. Humans are humans) That being said, being a victim is shitty place to be. and don't others take advantage you. Ultimately It's good to see you're in a better place about it. A much more understanding place, when you have very right to still be bitter. No one would or could fault you

    There is some phrase about, The measure of man by how he treats those he has power over, or something.
    Last edited by MercSet; 03-02-2017, 04:35 PM. Reason: spelling

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  • Ana Mizuki
    replied
    Originally posted by Charlaquin View Post
    Geek culture, man. It harbors some seriously toxic people and attitudes. Not all geeks, obviously, and I've found the OPP fan community especially to be one of the best communities of gamers I've ever seen. But a significant portion of gamers and geeks have been victims of bullying in the past and continue the cycle by becoming cyber bullies themselves.
    A huge issue is also that a lot of bullied geeks and nerds create this feeling of superiority towards their bullies, rather than process what happened in a more healthy way. Bullying is dominance, whether by girls or boys are doing it, and so one method to cope is think YOU are better than THEM. All well and good until you are in a position to do it yourself.

    Much healthier is trying to figure out why it happened in the first place and move on from the role of a victim. For me, the moment I truly stopped being bitter, was when I heard the guy in my class who had bullied and beaten me, was now a shut in with no will to live. And I saw this athletic guy regress towards that state through the last spring of high school after a foot injury. It was difficult to watch and harder to hear he never recovered.

    Leave a comment:

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