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  • Originally posted by Nyrufa View Post
    Can Clerics use the Bless spell to create holy water?
    No, but they can do it with the Ceremony spell.


    Going by Willow now, or Wil for short. She/Her/Hers.

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    • Presumably you can't just turn a "large pool of water" into holy water with the Bless spell for a couple reasons.

      1) Despite the name, the "Bless" spell has a specific and narrow function. It, like most DnD 5e spells, is meant to do a particular thing, and no more. Ceremony is notable in that it can do a number of different things. Bless, meanwhile, just gives characters bonuses to their rolls (which, point of fact, is pretty damn potent all on its own).

      2) If a single 1st level spell slot could instantly turn a "large pool of water" into a large pool of holy water, that could be exploited to hell and back by any party that puts a modicum of thought into it. For one, the exact cited scenario with the vampire (as an aside, don't bother with a pool of holy water; what you want is running water, since that's like acid to vampires in 5e). For another, a "large pool of water" could be bottled by the hundreds and sold at a profit far in excess of the resources put into it (1 spell slot and hundreds of bottles). Ceremony makes it clear that holy water isn't cheap because it consumes material components (powdered silver as I recall). You can still make a profit selling it, just not as explosively, and you honestly have better things to do as an adventurer.


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      • So during today's session, in good timing with the date, the party was invited to see a circus show, where the main event was the premiere of a new, original play produced by one of the circus's men called "the King in Yellow". As almost all of my players don't really know their Lovecraft they had no idea what they were getting themselves into, except of one player which got almost every reference and knew how fucked up things are going to go. I've actually wrote some parts of the play and read them for the players, and I ruled that any player who fails an Intelligence saving throw actually witness the city of Carcosa, the masquerade and so forth. All of my players were literally in awe, and some said they got chills from some parts of the play.

        While that was awesome, that was far from the highlight of the session. After the end of the first act, the ringmaster took the party away from the show, as they wanted him to meet with the playwright. There, in the backstage, he called the playwright- which was discovered to be the very first bandit the party captured somewhere in the very first battle battle of the whole campaign, and which escaped prison by murdering his fellow cellmate, a cult leader the party also captured, and used his death as sacrifice to the very stars the cultist has worshiped (all of that unknown to the players, of course, but there were clues for this). And just as the players were in shock from meeting the person they tortured for days, the ringmaster (who knew the connection between the PCs and the playwright from the beginning and decided to surprise both sides) closed the curtain- just as the screams began, as the second act has started.

        And that's where we ended the session. All of my players really enjoyed the session, both from the creepy way the play was presented and from the twist of the nameless "Bandit number 2" showing up again- all full with hatred toward those which have literally tormented him in almost every possible way available. And there is the ringmaster, of course, which have organized the whole thing- and believe me, that guy is a monster. Everyone ended the session very excited toward the next one, myself included. I just hope it won't end up in TPK :P


        My Homebrew Signature

        "And all our knowledge is, Ourselves to know"- An Essay on Man

        I now blog in here

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        • (So been working on this race some more. Changed their stat choces a bit, started working on the special effect of their breath weapon)

          Dra’Dusa (mysterious unknown ‘evil’ race, Drow/Yuan Ti analogue). Seemingly similar to Medusa on other worlds, this all female race does have serpentine hair, but with heads more like tiny dragons and no ability to turn anyone to stone. Instead, their serpents are one of the Chromatic Dragon colors with breath like attacks much like Dragons of the same color. How they reproduce, or rather who with, is unknown. No half breeds of the Dra’Dusa have ever been seen, by other races at least, though they are known to sometimes sleep with other races. They often rule with absolute authority over their cities, though are not necessarily cruel or unjust, but only the Dra’Dusa are ever in any position of power on any governmental levels.

          They get +2, +1, and +1 to their Con, Int, and Cha in any order

          Based on their lineage, they have hair color and a breath weapon of one of the following:

          (The green one seems good, the others have question marks and mean they are "in thought" and I'm mulling them over and looking for imput)

          Black – Acid Bolts, can dissolve locks or other items?

          Blue – Shocking Bolts, -4 to next attack?

          Green – Poison Bolts, A poisoned creature has disadvantage on attack rolls, on the round following the attack, a creature can make a saving throw vs a DC of 8+ the attacker’s Con bonus.

          Red – Fire Bolts, set things on fire, next attempted bonus action fails this round or next?

          White – Frost Bolts, -4 to initiative until can save is made, no stacking?

          These breath weapons appear as small bursts of light of the appropriate color shooting from several of the dragon hair’s mouths that burst on impact and may affect the target in ways matching the damage type. They have a 30 foot range. They can use this attack Con bonus times per day, or at least once per long rest

          (the damage here, I'm weighing it against 1-5 ranged attacks vs like a quiver full of arrows, javelins, spears, etc. This is like the 4th reduced damage table, originally going up to 10d10 at 20th level, was just a graduated table to have something down to consider)

          1st-2nd level 2d4, 3rd-4th level 2d4+4, 5th-6th level 2d4+8
          7th-8th level 2d6+4, 9th-10th level 2d6+8, 11th-12th level 3d6+4
          13th-15th level 3d8+4, 16th-18th level 3d8+8
          19th level 4d8+4, 20th level 4d8+8

          (So looking for thoughts and opinions on the mechanics here. Thank you)

          Comment


          • Turns out the rogue I quit playing in 5E over a year ago because of how boring she was has stuck around as an NPC for quite some time now. And the GM consulted me on how I'd have build her up to level 10. We briefly considered using the medium armor feat to have her run around quietly in half-plate. But as tempting as it is, spending two feats just to have 1 more AC than she'd have with studded leather and 20 dexterity isn't worth it. Much as I love defying rogue stereotypes. So he opted to just give her 20 dexterity and more move speed. Considering she already ran on autopilot when I played her, this should work well.
            Last edited by Morty; 09-20-2019, 08:57 AM.

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            • Originally posted by Morty View Post
              Turns out the rogue I quit playing in 5E over a year ago because of how boring she was has stuck around as an NPC for quite some time now. And the GM consulted me on how I'd have build her up to level 10. We briefly considered using the medium armor feat to have her run around quietly in half-plate. But as tempting as it is, spending two feats just to have 1 more AC than she'd have with studded leather and 20 dexterity isn't worth it. Much as I love defying rogue stereotypes. So he opted to just give her 20 dexterity and more move speed. Considering she already ran on autopilot when I played her, this should work well.
              Rogue in half-plate armor...

              *clank, clank, clank, clank*

              "I'm being stealthy!"

              *clank, clank, clank*

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              • Did 4th edition originate the idea of roles (for monsters, not PCs), or was it from an earlier D&D book or inspired by another game?

                I know other games did the equivalent of Minions in the form of Extras, but things like Artillery, Brute, Controller, Lurker, etc.
                Last edited by nofather; 09-27-2019, 06:47 PM.

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                • Originally posted by nofather View Post
                  Did 4th edition originate the idea of roles (for monsters, not PCs), or was it from an earlier D&D book or inspired by another game?

                  I know other games did the equivalent of Minions in the form of Extras, but things like Artillery, Brute, Controller, Lurker, etc.
                  Pretty much. It was at least 4e that codified them and started actively designing around the concept.


                  Going by Willow now, or Wil for short. She/Her/Hers.

                  Comment


                  • Huh, I just realized something:

                    People like to give the elves a lot of flack for being slow to change, while claiming that for all their vaunted wisdom and experience, humans have been able to rapidly outpace them when it comes to innovation and development.

                    This seems like a compelling argument at first glance. But then I started to think about it from a more logical point of view, and noticed that elves don't seem to actually need to innovate and develop like the other races do.

                    If refusing to change your ways, and isolating yourself from the outside world was really as much of a design flaw as people claim it to be, then how is it that elves are able to live for hundreds, if not thousands of years under this system without any major difficulties to speak of? In some settings, the elves are actually immortal, with members who have been around for countless millennia with little to no contact with the outside world. And they seem to be getting along perfectly fine.

                    It sounds like "progress" and "innovation" are just words that the short lived races like to wave around in the elven people's face so that they can justify their boundless greed and reckless behavior. Elven longevity proves they have all the development they need to enjoy long, comfortable lives, without allowing themselves to fall prey to the materialistic vices of the lesser races.

                    If Elves are So Overpowered, Why Are The An Endangered Species?
                    Last edited by Nyrufa; 09-27-2019, 09:30 PM.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Nyrufa View Post
                      Huh, I just realized something:

                      People like to give the elves a lot of flack for being slow to change, while claiming that for all their vaunted wisdom and experience, humans have been able to rapidly outpace them when it comes to innovation and development.

                      This seems like a compelling argument at first glance. But then I started to think about it from a more logical point of view, and noticed that elves don't seem to actually need to innovate and develop like the other races do.

                      If refusing to change your ways, and isolating yourself from the outside world was really as much of a design flaw as people claim it to be, then how is it that elves are able to live for hundreds, if not thousands of years under this system without any major difficulties to speak of? In some settings, the elves are actually immortal, with members who have been around for countless millennia with little to no contact with the outside world. And they seem to be getting along perfectly fine.

                      It sounds like "progress" and "innovation" are just words that the short lived races like to wave around in the elven people's face so that they can justify their boundless greed and reckless behavior. Elven longevity proves they have all the development they need to enjoy long, comfortable lives, without allowing themselves to fall prey to the materialistic vices of the lesser races.

                      If Elves are So Overpowered, Why Are The An Endangered Species?
                      This is a Thermian Argument, though. Elves are only "doing fine" because that's how the writers chose to design their setting.

                      Moreover, just because Elves seem to be doing alright "now", doesn't mean they will continue to do so. Arguments can be made that Elves have as advanced a civilization as they do because they are so old; in effect, they had a head start on everyone else. But that head start doesn't prevent them from being overtaken by shorter-lived races with motivation to innovate more quickly. In that sense, the Elves aren't "doing alright", they're in decline, or at least slow to adapt to a world that is changing. A world that is likely to change even more quickly in the future, if we assume the shorter lived races begin to achieve "breakthroughs" that revolutionize their world.
                      Last edited by Bluecho; 09-27-2019, 10:15 PM.


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                      • Originally posted by Bluecho View Post
                        This is a Thermian Argument, though. Elves are only "doing fine" because that's how the writers chose to design their setting.

                        Moreover, just because Elves seem to be doing alright "now", doesn't mean they will continue to do so. Arguments can be made that Elves have as advanced a civilization as they do because they are so old; in effect, they had a head start on everyone else. But that head start doesn't prevent them from being overtaken by shorter-lived races with motivation to innovate more quickly. In that sense, the Elves aren't "doing alright", they're in decline, or at least slow to adapt to a world that is changing. A world that is likely to change even more quickly in the future, if we assume the shorter lived races begin to achieve "breakthroughs" that revolutionize their world.

                        That might be true, if we're talking about a setting in which magic doesn't exist, and people are forced to rely on science and technology to survive. But in the case where elves are included, it's generally a safe bet that magic also exists. You don't really need to adapt more modern forms of agriculture, when you can just cast Create Food and Water and produce enough meals to satisfy 15 people for 24 hours. You don't need to bother lugging around heavy siege equipment, when a simple Fireball spell can blow up everything in a 20 foot radius, and be unleashed with virtually no warning ahead of time.

                        You don't even need to create advanced tools and equipment, when the spells Mold Earth, Shape Water, Control Flames and Gust are all cantrips that can be used over and over again without too much effort!

                        Now, sure, these spells may vary in power level. But remember that elves live for a very, very long time, and have more than enough opportunities to learn them. And in some settings, the elves actually possess access to demigod level magic that the other races can't even begin to rival. And we can't make the argument that not everybody in elven society is a magic user, because I can make the argument that not everybody in human society is a scientist, or an engineer.


                        When it comes to explaining why the elven population is always in decline, my personal take on it isn't because elves refuse to change. I believe they're in decline, because it's nature's way of balancing things out. If elves reproduced as rapidly as humans did, the would completely overrun the planet. Humans die off within their first century, and they're already pushing the 8 billion marker as it is. Imagine a species who lives 10 times longer and breeds just as rapidly. That's an ecological catastrophe waiting to happen.

                        So I think elves have low fertility rates, and smaller populations in order to avoid disastrous situations like that.
                        Last edited by Nyrufa; 09-27-2019, 11:06 PM.

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                        • Well first off, with elves it's incredibly setting dependent.

                          That said, one of the more common tropes I've seen in many fantasy settings is that elves are a race that the sun is setting on. They had their grand and vast empires in the ancient past, and those empires were lost. Elves aren't quite a shadow of their former selves, but they're fairly close. For example, in the Forgotten Realms, Evermeet is the only remaining bastion of what the great Elven civilizations used to be like. Prior to the Crown Wars, every elven kingdom was an Evermeet. Now it's the only one left. This concept seems to be the more common take in many other fantasy RPG settings (Dragon Age, Palladium Fantasy, Scarred Lands, and plenty more) and largely I think it's something that was lifted out of Lord of the Rings.

                          So for the elves, the best days of their civilization and history lay behind them, while the future generally represents a slow decline. This tends to be an explanation as to why why elves are more typically slow to accept social changes. Many of them may well be hundreds of years old or even older, and have personally witnessed the slow decline of their nation and as such many elves tend to end up with a strong nostalgia for the past and wish to keep things like they used to be for as long as possible.

                          But again, that is very setting dependent and there are plenty of settings in which elves aren't like that and don't operate like that.

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                          • Originally posted by AnubisXy View Post
                            Well first off, with elves it's incredibly setting dependent.

                            That said, one of the more common tropes I've seen in many fantasy settings is that elves are a race that the sun is setting on. They had their grand and vast empires in the ancient past, and those empires were lost. Elves aren't quite a shadow of their former selves, but they're fairly close. For example, in the Forgotten Realms, Evermeet is the only remaining bastion of what the great Elven civilizations used to be like. Prior to the Crown Wars, every elven kingdom was an Evermeet. Now it's the only one left. This concept seems to be the more common take in many other fantasy RPG settings (Dragon Age, Palladium Fantasy, Scarred Lands, and plenty more) and largely I think it's something that was lifted out of Lord of the Rings.

                            So for the elves, the best days of their civilization and history lay behind them, while the future generally represents a slow decline. This tends to be an explanation as to why why elves are more typically slow to accept social changes. Many of them may well be hundreds of years old or even older, and have personally witnessed the slow decline of their nation and as such many elves tend to end up with a strong nostalgia for the past and wish to keep things like they used to be for as long as possible.

                            But again, that is very setting dependent and there are plenty of settings in which elves aren't like that and don't operate like that.
                            See also Matt Colville's video on Dead Empires as a fantasy trope.



                            EDIT: The primary take-away for our purposes is that Tolkien - the codifier of much of the fantasy genre we enjoy today (including in DnD) - absolutely believed in the waning of empires, and that what's around "today" is often a pale echo of greater and more vibrant ages long past. This includes with the elves, who have grown tired over time.

                            Obviously, other writers and settings need not be beholden to Tolkien's model. But that IS the genre precedent.
                            Last edited by Bluecho; 09-27-2019, 11:42 PM.


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                            • Originally posted by Charlaquin View Post
                              Pretty much. It was at least 4e that codified them and started actively designing around the concept.
                              Thanks, Charlaquin. I really liked them and the idea of building antagonists with a thrust at what they're there to do.

                              Originally posted by Bluecho View Post
                              This is a Thermian Argument, though. Elves are only "doing fine" because that's how the writers chose to design their setting.
                              And wow thanks for the link seriously.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by AnubisXy View Post
                                Well first off, with elves it's incredibly setting dependent.

                                That said, one of the more common tropes I've seen in many fantasy settings is that elves are a race that the sun is setting on. They had their grand and vast empires in the ancient past, and those empires were lost. Elves aren't quite a shadow of their former selves, but they're fairly close. For example, in the Forgotten Realms, Evermeet is the only remaining bastion of what the great Elven civilizations used to be like. Prior to the Crown Wars, every elven kingdom was an Evermeet. Now it's the only one left. This concept seems to be the more common take in many other fantasy RPG settings (Dragon Age, Palladium Fantasy, Scarred Lands, and plenty more) and largely I think it's something that was lifted out of Lord of the Rings.

                                In the game, Shadowbane, the elves used to be the dominant species of the planet. But they were so mercilessly tyrannical, that Humans eventually assembled the other races of the land into a widespread rebellion and overthrew their empire. Most of the other races retained strong grudges against the elves for the way they were treated under their rule, causing them to become hated and reviled throughout most of the world. The immortality of the elves becoming a curse, as they're forced to watch their empire crumble to ruins over time.

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