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  • Originally posted by atamajakki View Post
    Not quite D&D, but Ken Hite is running a 13th Age game set in 3rd century BCE Sicily and I'm so profoundly jealous. Hellenistic stuff is super underrated for fantasy.
    That sounds fascinating!



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    • Originally posted by atamajakki View Post
      Not quite D&D, but Ken Hite is running a 13th Age game set in 3rd century BCE Sicily and I'm so profoundly jealous. Hellenistic stuff is super underrated for fantasy.
      Archimedes, Syracuse and Magna Grecia? Cool. Part of my family comes from there too, which means nothing but adds to the reasons I find that time window fascinating


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      • Originally posted by Nicolas Milioni View Post
        cool. just one more question. You see,i'm very new to roleplaying , i've been reading world of darkness and new world of of darkness books for a year now,but i only started playing this month. And i wanted to get into Dungeons and Dragons,but DnD is massive. So,could you tell me,which book do i have to read to get the basics?
        The bare minimum is the basic rules, available for free here: http://dnd.wizards.com/articles/features/basicrules

        The primary book is the 5e Player's Handbook (https://www.amazon.com/Players-Handb.../dp/0786965606). It contains all the rules you need to start playing and just about everyone who plays eventually owns a copy of this.

        There is also a starter set (https://www.amazon.com/Dungeons-Drag...V0ACS1R6NBQPTE) it contains the basic version of the rules, an adventure, dice and premade characters.




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        • And don't forget D&D Beyond if you are into digital tools that utilize and organize the game rules better than books can (and also happen to be one of the cheapest possible ways to legally obtain the D&D 5th edition game).


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          • Off-hand, anyone here know about Nocturne much? I backed the kickstarter back forever ago (before two of the guys stole all the money). Wondering who else had experience with it.



            ​When noise turns to silence, when colors dull and pale, when reality no longer makes sense, there shall you find me. There, in the dreams of the River of Faceless Millions, do I dwell.

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            • One of the other 13th Age things that blew my mind: oh my god they brought back the Warlord from 4e, in a super elegant way! I didn’t ever really want to play another d20 game, but I’d do it if I could play a Commander.


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              • Originally posted by atamajakki View Post
                One of the other 13th Age things that blew my mind: oh my god they brought back the Warlord from 4e, in a super elegant way! I didn’t ever really want to play another d20 game, but I’d do it if I could play a Commander.
                If I had the time, I'd love to run 13th Age again, and if I ever do, I'll totally invite you Lex!



                ​When noise turns to silence, when colors dull and pale, when reality no longer makes sense, there shall you find me. There, in the dreams of the River of Faceless Millions, do I dwell.

                http://harenm.deviantart.com/gallery/ for my art.

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                • I've taken a look at the 13th Age SRD some time ago. It seems to have some good ideas, like the class-based damage and AC. Though it does stick to the D&D class list, which is to its disadvantage. Still, it's on my "would be cool to play someday" list. And it's always good to see people run fantasy that's not a bland pseudo-European medieval mush.

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                  • Originally posted by Morty View Post
                    I've taken a look at the 13th Age SRD some time ago. It seems to have some good ideas, like the class-based damage and AC. Though it does stick to the D&D class list, which is to its disadvantage. Still, it's on my "would be cool to play someday" list. And it's always good to see people run fantasy that's not a bland pseudo-European medieval mush.
                    Note that it does have some new classes: the Wild Mage, the Occultist, the Commander, and the Demonologist.

                    I do dream of someday seeing a D&D or inspired game taking a hard look at the class list and killing some sacred cows, rolling together or cutting quite a few. An idea I’m toying with recently is a game (almost certainly PbtA) where all the characters are casters, to get around the balancing issue and to focus on those in-characer debates, or possibly one with an all-divine party.


                    Call me Regina or Lex.

                    Female pronouns for me, please.

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                    • One thing that I loved about 4e’s Power Sources and Roles was that it made class bloat a non-issue to me. For me, the problem with bloat is not that it provides too many options. I’m perfectly comfortable laying out what options are and are not suitable for a given campaign. My issue is when the options don’t feel justified.

                      To unpack that statement a bit, my design philosophy is that a new element should always occupy the smallest amount of design space it can in order to accomplish its design goals. To put it in D&D terms, never do with a class what you could accomplish with a subclass; never do with a subclass what you could accomplish with a feat. A lot of classes in Pathfinder feel like they’re in the game to allow for a very specific character concept, like a Gunslinger, or a very specific mechanic, like “dual-wielding” with a Spell in one hand instead of a weapon. But do you really need a whole class worth of rules just to be able to play a guy that fights with guns, or attack with a melee weapon and cast a spell in the same turn? What about a Feat chain that gives you cool maneuvers you can do with guns, or a 5-level Prestige Class that gives you the gish mechanics you want in a smaller package? Especially when a lot of the mechanics fall into one of a small number of baseline patterns (leading to shorthands like “half-caster” and “full BAB progression”), I feel like it would be much cleaner to have a much smaller number of classes with more customization options to express those interesting concepts and mechanics instead of whole new classes?

                      In 4e though, a class always felt justified as a full class to me, as long as it had a unique combination of Power Source and combat Role. I didn’t mind having separate classes for, say, a druid and a shaman, because even if they were similar in concept, they each had a very clear design rationale that couldn’t have been satisfied with something smaller like a chain of Feats. And with Essentials introducing Subclasses and secondary power sources and roles, you had a formula for a ton of class “bloat” that didn’t feel bloated at all. Fighter became the Class for Martial Defenders, with subclasses that allowed you to branch out into being a secondary Striker, or Leader or something. It would have been even better if, say, Paladin had gotten rolled into that as the Martial Defender with secondary Divine abilities, for example. I think that’s how I’d design a spiritual successor to 4e.

                      I hope the above didn’t come off as too specifically critical of 3e and Pathfinder. That was certainly not the intent; it was just an easy counter-example to 4e’s use of very explicit design rationale to justify its bloat. I could have just as well used another game as an example. Actually, CofD might have been a good one. Much as I love it, CofD has some serious bloat problems, which could similarly be addressed with some clearer design rationale.


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                      • The other nice things about Power Sources was how much fun they were to RP. The idea of an all-Cleric party bickering over matters of religion is a tempting one narratively, but a mess mechanically; if your party is a Cleric, Avenger, Paladin, and Invoker, all of different faiths, then you still function as a combat unit but have variety while atill all being Divine characters. I liked the narrative shorthand it offered.

                        Also, filling out that chart gave us the Warlord, Avenger, Warden, Battlmind, and Ardent, which are some of my favorite classes of all time, now likely all gone for good.


                        Call me Regina or Lex.

                        Female pronouns for me, please.

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                        • Originally posted by atamajakki View Post
                          The other nice things about Power Sources was how much fun they were to RP. The idea of an all-Cleric party bickering over matters of religion is a tempting one narratively, but a mess mechanically; if your party is a Cleric, Avenger, Paladin, and Invoker, all of different faiths, then you still function as a combat unit but have variety while atill all being Divine characters. I liked the narrative shorthand it offered.

                          Also, filling out that chart gave us the Warlord, Avenger, Warden, Battlmind, and Ardent, which are some of my favorite classes of all time, now likely all gone for good.

                          The idea is somewhat easier to manage if the party members all worship the same pantheon of gods, because then they have something in common to base their relationship on. But yeah, having wildly different faiths can be an entertaining challenge RP wise.

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                          • On 13th Age, there are some good compatible classes. For example the Darkstone Arcanist, Haunted One, and Bloodshire Slayer.

                            The Arcanist is a sort of "pet class" having a created servitor that can fight for them in battles or even multiple servitors. But the main differences are in the different kinds of servitors. One might have a Frakenstein type flesh golem, another might have a clay golem, or an elegant battle marionette, or a mechanical horror.

                            The Haunted One is powered by trapped spirits in their flesh. Missed attacks tend to do no damage but gain Trauma, which is a power point source. Some powers get stronger (but potentially dangerous to the Haunted One themself), others require spending Trauma to activate, etc...

                            The Bloodshire Slayer is the "I am a monster (or part monster) and so I hunt worse monsters". And they have abilities based on what they are.



                            ​When noise turns to silence, when colors dull and pale, when reality no longer makes sense, there shall you find me. There, in the dreams of the River of Faceless Millions, do I dwell.

                            http://harenm.deviantart.com/gallery/ for my art.

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                            • Charlaquin , if you ever get around to working on that spiritual successor, count me in. I have agreed with your point of view on roles/power source since the first time you mentioned it here.

                              And like Lex, I would love to kill me some sacred cows (and have sacred steak for dinner).



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                              • Originally posted by atamajakki View Post

                                Note that it does have some new classes: the Wild Mage, the Occultist, the Commander, and the Demonologist.

                                I do dream of someday seeing a D&D or inspired game taking a hard look at the class list and killing some sacred cows, rolling together or cutting quite a few. An idea I’m toying with recently is a game (almost certainly PbtA) where all the characters are casters, to get around the balancing issue and to focus on those in-characer debates, or possibly one with an all-divine party.
                                It does have some new classes, but the basic set mostly sticks to the tired old D&D set. I mean, that applies to 4E too. For all the innovation the power source/role setup brought, it was still constrained by the need to keep most of the old classes.

                                Much like in 4E, the 13th Age Fighter gets the actual job of being a defender... and much like in 4E, if you want to play an aggressive warrior-type, you have to deal with the baggage of a rogue, ranger or barbarian. And unlike in 4E, the 13th Age Fighter seems to be stuck being the "simple" class, with most of its abilities triggering randomly. Though I could be wrong, it's been a while.

                                And although I like the 4E power sources, I take issue with defining every non-magical class as a "martial" and combat-focused one.

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