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  • #76
    Originally posted by atamajakki View Post
    “Gypsy” is a slur.
    It depends. I'm Hungarian, so I actually have experience with this. Here, Romani politicians and intellectuals are using it, Romani in general are using it and you could use it with them, if you're doing it in a respectful way. It's not quite like the N-word, although it could be. It's also somewhat varies from individual to individual.

    Anyway, I pointedly used it above, because I talked about the trope and fantasy gypsies in the mentioned books, not the real world ethnicity. In the later case I tend to use Romani too.


    Originally posted by Camilla View Post
    I'd rather this thread not get political, so let's shelve any discussions relating to real-world socio-political issues and focus on D&D, shall we?
    For my part, okay, i don't have anything else to add to the topic.

    That being said, I understand where Lex is coming from and why she would be frustrated with concepts such as the Vistani and their Pathfinder equivalent whose name escapes me.
    Varisians. Honestly, I think the folks at Paizo really like Ravenloft and just wanted to include Vistani, but in a less mystical, more down-to-earth, less stereotypical way, as a normal human ethnicity.

    Also, rest assured, I can understand her frustration too and I hope I could manage to stay civil and respectful. I just don't agree with the harsh stigmatization of these things.

    and a Grimdark setting loosely inspired by Elizabethan England. I'd love to brainstorm some ideas for this game and bounce it off of you guys, if that is okay.
    That sounds quite cool to me, what do you have in mind? Something like 7th Sea Avalon, but in grimdark, with dark fairy tales, artifacts from the New World, pirates and such?




    If nothing worked, then let's think!

    Comment


    • #77
      Originally posted by PMárk View Post


      That sounds quite cool to me, what do you have in mind? Something like 7th Sea Avalon, but in grimdark, with dark fairy tales, artifacts from the New World, pirates and such?

      Lots of dark fairy tales, perilous journeys to seek the treasures of the New World, pirates, war with other kingdoms and empires based on a fantasy version of the 16th Century, magic, monsters, and the PC's struggling to survive.

      Much as how Warhammer Fantasy's Empire of Man was envisioned a fantasy version of the Holy Roman Empire in the time of Charles V, this setting is like a fantasy version of the British Isles in the time of the Tudors, with some medieval fantasy and Gothic Horror influences as well.

      I need to think of fantasy names for these nations though, and I suck at fantasy names. I'm mostly using old historic names for the countries and factions so far, so a lot of these names are working titles.

      Kingdom of Britannia: England and Wales
      Kingdom of Caledonia: Scotland
      Lordship of Eire: Ireland
      Kingdom of Francia: France
      The Empire: Holy Roman Empire
      Kingdom of Lusitania: Spain and Portugal
      Empire of Rusland: Tsarist Russia
      Sultanate of Outremer: Ottoman Empire
      The New World: North America and South America
      The Far North: Scandinavia, Iceland, and the Baltic
      The Imperial Church: Roman Catholic Church (The Pope is replaced by a similar figure, the Pontifex Maximus)
      The Queen's Church: Church of England
      The Reformed Church: Lutheran Church
      Zealots: Puritans
      Last edited by Camilla; 11-24-2017, 12:10 AM.

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      • #78
        Originally posted by Camilla View Post

        Lots of dark fairy tales, perilous journeys to seek the treasures of the New World, pirates, war with other kingdoms and empires based on a fantasy version of the 16th Century, magic, monsters, and the PC's struggling to survive.

        Much as how Warhammer Fantasy's Empire of Man was envisioned a fantasy version of the Holy Roman Empire in the time of Charles V, this setting is like a fantasy version of the British Isles in the time of the Tudors, with some medieval fantasy and Gothic Horror influences as well.
        That's great! To be honest, I'm a bit of a sucker of the 16th century, because my main HEMA interest (bolognese fencing and sidesword/rapier fencing in general) is connected to that era. Regardless it was a highly interesting age, at the dawn of renaissance humanism. Mentioned that, I think reading up a little on fencing guilds and masters could give you some good story hooks!

        Also, Francis Drake...
        Last edited by PMárk; 11-24-2017, 12:06 AM.


        If nothing worked, then let's think!

        Comment


        • #79
          Originally posted by Camilla View Post
          I need to think of fantasy names for these nations though, and I suck at fantasy names. I'm mostly using old historic names for the countries and factions so far, so a lot of these names are working titles.

          Kingdom of Britannia: England and Wales
          Kingdom of Caledonia: Scotland
          Lordship of Eire: Ireland
          Kingdom of Francia: France
          The Empire: Holy Roman Empire
          Kingdom of Lusitania: Spain and Portugal
          Empire of Rusland: Tsarist Russia
          Sultanate of Outremer: Ottoman Empire
          The New World: North America and South America
          The Far North: Scandinavia, Iceland, and the Baltic
          The Imperial Church: Roman Catholic Church
          The Queen's Church: Church of England
          Zealots: Puritans
          Nothing wrong with that. I mean, it worked for 7th Sea...

          Actually, I like this type of naming, if the setting is really a fantasy/alternate history version of real-world Europe. To me it's better than coming up with entirely made-up names.

          Oh, and "Francia" is "French" the language and nationality in Hungarian.



          If nothing worked, then let's think!

          Comment


          • #80
            Originally posted by PMárk View Post

            That's great! To be honest, I'm a bit of a sucker of the 16th century, because my main HEMA interest (bolognese fencing and sidesword/rapier fencing in general) is connected to that era. Regardless it was a highly interesting age, at the dawn of renaissance humanism. Mentioned that, I think reading up a little on fencing guilds and masters could give you some good story hooks!

            Also, Francis Drake...

            Francis Drake was pretty cool. You also had William Shakespeare, the Spanish Armada, Queen Mary of Scots, the Protestant Reformation, the advent of the Printing Press and expansion of literacy among the lower classes, and lots of other interesting bits and pieces of that era. Add magic and monsters to it, and you have something that goes from cool to totally awesome!

            Comment


            • #81
              Originally posted by Camilla View Post


              Francis Drake was pretty cool. You also had William Shakespeare, the Spanish Armada, Queen Mary of Scots, the Protestant Reformation, the advent of the Printing Press and expansion of literacy among the lower classes, and lots of other interesting bits and pieces of that era. Add magic and monsters to it, and you have something that goes from cool to totally awesome!
              Agree, it's a really intersting era, with lot of going-ons. I never understood why it is so underused.


              If nothing worked, then let's think!

              Comment


              • #82
                Originally posted by PMárk View Post
                Something like that, with the caveat that, except of the case of divinely restricted classes, a couple of missteps won't really change your alignment, in my book.
                I agree. A single action, even a very significant one, will never change a character's alignment in my games. Even a few actions won't. What matters is, when taken as a whole, do your actions overall reflect the values of Good, Evil, Law, or Chaos?

                Originally posted by PMárk View Post
                Really, I see it as yes, those forces exist in their purity on the cosmic level, in the form of gods and outsiders, but the Material Plane and its inhabitants are just more complex than that. They have an alignment, but it's just a shorthand to summarize their core beliefs and/or, as you write, actual actions through their life.
                For me, that complexity is expressed through a creature's free will. The fact that a mortal being (unlike, say, a celestial or a fiend) can act in a way that goes against its ideals, and that its "true" alignment can be different than its stated alignment as a result, is evidence of this. But, I'm of the opinion that either a creature's "true" alignment should have meaningful consequences, or the game is better off just not having alignment at all.

                Now, when I say "meaningful consequences", I don't mean your Paladin should lose their powers and become a fighter if you make too many decisions that aren't in line with Lawful Good behavior. Rather, I mean consequences on a cosmic scale. Things like what I mentioned in my previous post, determining where your character's soul will go after their death, or empowering gods of like alignment in some small way. In practical game terms, maybe messengers of your deity come to you and let you know that your actions do not befit a follower of said deity, and you must either atone or be excommunicated. Plot consequences, not mechanics consequences.

                Originally posted by PMárk View Post
                Also, it's interesting that you wrote that law and chaos would be more nebulous, because I always seen good and evil as harder to grasp. I can't come up with a better description than "good" is a strong bend toward altruism and "bad" is for selfishness regardless (or more even, directly at) of others' potential expense.
                In real life, sure. But remember, this is a world where gods, demons, and devils undeniably exist and directly intervene in the affairs of mortals. In such a setting, "Good" just means "in line with the commandments of the Good gods" and likewise Evil and the commandments of the Evil gods. You could say the same of Law and Chaos, but that gets a little stickier specifically because they have more clearly defined real-world meanings, and as a result don't need supreme beings to define them.

                This is how it works in my games. I ask a series of four questions.

                Good/Evil Axis
                1. Is your character willing to put themselves in harm's way for the benefit of others? If so, your alignment is Good. If no, go to 2.
                2. Is your character willing to harm others in pursuit of their own desires or goals? If yes, your alignment is Evil. If no, you are neutral with respect to Good and Evil.

                Law/Chaos Axis
                1. Does your character believe that individuals should be expected to give up certain freedoms for the benefit of society as a whole? If yes, your alignment is Lawful. If no, go to 2.
                2. Does your character believe that they would be better off retaining their individual freedoms by eschewing societal rule? If yes, your alignment is Chaotic, If no, you are neutral with respect to Law and Chaos.

                This determines the alignment that goes on the character sheet. Most characters that are suitable adventurers will be Good, and either Lawful of Neutral. That makes sense, as it is a statement of values. Most people do strive to be good, and believe in the value of social systems. For determining a character's "true" alignment, which is what would show up on Detect Alignment spells in editions that have such things, and carry the consequences mentioned above, I look to how closely the character's actions reflect those ideals. Do they regularly risk their lives to help others, or do they tend to turn down people in need if they don't think the reward is worth it? Do they abide by societal norms on principle, or do they only do so when it's convenient? Under this metric, most characters actually gravitate towards Neutral on both axes. That, again, makes sense, because while Law and Good are noble goals, they often run counter to an individual's self-interests; it takes work to truly live those goals. A character's "true" alignment turns to Chaotic or Evil when they no longer even make the effort to be Lawful or Good.
                Last edited by Charlaquin; 11-24-2017, 01:35 AM.


                Onyx Path Forum Moderator

                My mod voice is red. I use it so you know when I'm speaking in an official capacity, not as an indication of tone.

                Going by Willow now, or Wil for short. She/Her/Hers.

                Comment


                • #83
                  Originally posted by Camilla View Post

                  Lots of dark fairy tales, perilous journeys to seek the treasures of the New World, pirates, war with other kingdoms and empires based on a fantasy version of the 16th Century, magic, monsters, and the PC's struggling to survive.

                  Much as how Warhammer Fantasy's Empire of Man was envisioned a fantasy version of the Holy Roman Empire in the time of Charles V, this setting is like a fantasy version of the British Isles in the time of the Tudors, with some medieval fantasy and Gothic Horror influences as well.

                  I need to think of fantasy names for these nations though, and I suck at fantasy names. I'm mostly using old historic names for the countries and factions so far, so a lot of these names are working titles.

                  Kingdom of Britannia: England and Wales
                  Kingdom of Caledonia: Scotland
                  Lordship of Eire: Ireland
                  Kingdom of Francia: France
                  The Empire: Holy Roman Empire
                  Kingdom of Lusitania: Spain and Portugal
                  Empire of Rusland: Tsarist Russia
                  Sultanate of Outremer: Ottoman Empire
                  The New World: North America and South America
                  The Far North: Scandinavia, Iceland, and the Baltic
                  The Imperial Church: Roman Catholic Church (The Pope is replaced by a similar figure, the Pontifex Maximus)
                  The Queen's Church: Church of England
                  The Reformed Church: Lutheran Church
                  Zealots: Puritans

                  May I suggest Kingdom of Iberia instead of Lusitania? Its more encompasing of both Portugal and Spain, while Lusitania is just Portugal


                  I'm So Meta Even This Acronym

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                  • #84
                    Originally posted by Thorbes View Post


                    May I suggest Kingdom of Iberia instead of Lusitania? Its more encompasing of both Portugal and Spain, while Lusitania is just Portugal

                    True, that would be a better name.

                    Comment


                    • #85
                      I’ve said a lot about Eberron, but I feel like a sham not also shouting from the rooftops how much I love Dark Sun.


                      Call me Regina or Lex.

                      Female pronouns for me, please.

                      Comment


                      • #86
                        it is a pretty great setting

                        Comment


                        • #87
                          Originally posted by atamajakki View Post
                          I’ve said a lot about Eberron, but I feel like a sham not also shouting from the rooftops how much I love Dark Sun.
                          They’re both fantastic. God, I miss 4th Edition. Points of Light/Nentir Vale was my favorite incarnation of the generic core D&D setting, and it had support for my two favorite alternate D&D settings.


                          Onyx Path Forum Moderator

                          My mod voice is red. I use it so you know when I'm speaking in an official capacity, not as an indication of tone.

                          Going by Willow now, or Wil for short. She/Her/Hers.

                          Comment


                          • #88
                            Ravenloft is my favorite published setting and the only published setting I will actually DM a game in. Otherwise I prefer making my own settings.

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                            • #89
                              Originally posted by Camilla View Post
                              Ravenloft is my favorite published setting and the only published setting I will actually DM a game in. Otherwise I prefer making my own settings.
                              Ravenloft is pretty cool, but doesn’t make my favorites only because it’s so small in scope. Pretty much, if you’re running a Ravenloft campaign, chances are you’re looking for the artifacts and preparing to defeat Strahd. Which is a great premise for a campaign, don’t get me wrong. It’s just one of those settings that’s great for one specific thing, and not much else.


                              Onyx Path Forum Moderator

                              My mod voice is red. I use it so you know when I'm speaking in an official capacity, not as an indication of tone.

                              Going by Willow now, or Wil for short. She/Her/Hers.

                              Comment


                              • #90
                                Originally posted by Charlaquin View Post
                                Ravenloft is pretty cool, but doesn’t make my favorites only because it’s so small in scope. Pretty much, if you’re running a Ravenloft campaign, chances are you’re looking for the artifacts and preparing to defeat Strahd. Which is a great premise for a campaign, don’t get me wrong. It’s just one of those settings that’s great for one specific thing, and not much else.
                                I like Ravenloft as a crossover aspect more than an independent setting, that all the various worlds can provide Domains. I especially love the idea that Eberron's Cyre was claimed by the Mists.

                                But all the Vistani stuff sours me on Ravenloft's main setting, and there's also the wrinkle that no edition of D&D is terribly good at investigative horror.


                                Call me Regina or Lex.

                                Female pronouns for me, please.

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