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  • Star Wars: The Last Jedi

    A while ago, I had this recurring dream that new Star Wars movies were coming out, but because of Reasons, I just somehow couldn't get out to see them! Obviously, these were Anxiety dreams, not quite approaching the intensity of nightmares, but still mildly annoying. Now that new SW movies actually ARE coming out, I curiously don't feel any need to rush out and see them, so maybe that's progress?

    Still, a friend convinced me to buy my ticket online so that I can see it with a group of friends, which I enjoy doing. Tomorrows' the day! After watching so many speculation videos on Youtube, it's almost unbelievable that by this time tomorrow I'll finally know the truth of it all...

    Anyone else going to see this soon? What are you expecting/hoping/dreading?

  • #2
    Originally posted by Hand-of-Omega View Post
    A while ago, I had this recurring dream that new Star Wars movies were coming out, but because of Reasons, I just somehow couldn't get out to see them! Obviously, these were Anxiety dreams, not quite approaching the intensity of nightmares, but still mildly annoying. Now that new SW movies actually ARE coming out, I curiously don't feel any need to rush out and see them, so maybe that's progress?

    Still, a friend convinced me to buy my ticket online so that I can see it with a group of friends, which I enjoy doing. Tomorrows' the day! After watching so many speculation videos on Youtube, it's almost unbelievable that by this time tomorrow I'll finally know the truth of it all...

    Anyone else going to see this soon? What are you expecting/hoping/dreading?
    I'm definitely going to see it either this weekend or next week.

    I'm betting that Rey is going to be sorely tempted to join the dark side, and I'm sort of biting my nails over whether she would give in. Also trepidatious over whether Kylo Ren will turn back to Light, consumed with guilt over his deeds.

    Also hoping Phasma and Hux will get some build up as worthy antagonists to Finn, Poe and the Resistance.


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    • #3
      Originally posted by Prometheus878 View Post
      I'm betting that Rey is going to be sorely tempted to join the dark side, and I'm sort of biting my nails over whether she would give in. Also trepidatious over whether Kylo Ren will turn back to Light, consumed with guilt over his deeds.

      Also hoping Phasma and Hux will get some build up as worthy antagonists to Finn, Poe and the Resistance.
      Mark Hamill always wanted to explore Luke crossing to the Dark Side, so maybe that will leak over (Disney is picking up a LOT of plot ideas that didn't make it in the original series)...but I just can't see the young woman we met in TFA going there. I'm also looking forward to seeing just why Luke abandoned everything to hide out for years. I withheld judgement in the last movie because I wanted to see what explanation would be given, and that time has finally come. Mark Hamill famously said he disagreed with virtually everything written about his character in this one, but his job is to convincingly sell it, nonetheless. So we'll see how it goes...

      They'll also have to work hard to sell me on redeeming Kylo Ren/Ben Solo. The dude murdered his father in cold blood! Of course, I wrote off Sasuke when he definitely tried to murder Sakura the same way...yeah, screw that guy!

      I've always said that Phasma should have been the one to fight Finn with the shock baton in TFA, so I'm glad to see that will happen here (tho it would have even more resonance if they had clashed in the last one). Hux is kinda one-note, so anything with him will be an improvement.

      I wonder how much we'll learn about Snoke? Some guy was bashing the Prequels by complaining about how little we knew about Gen. Grievous, and I had to point out that we knew just as little about Darth Vader in the first film, and even less about the Emperor, even after all three movies! Seriously, who IS this guy, where'd he come from, how he learn about the Force, what does he even really *want*?? If those movies came out today, the fandom would crucify them for so little backstory. I'm hoping the current series doesn't just try to repeat that, thinking it worked then, without reflecting on how pop culture fandoms' expectations have changed...

      Speaking of, since one of the biggest complaints about TFA was how much of it's plot was cribbed from ANH, it's a bit worrying that at least some story beats as seen in the trailer seem similarly taken from ESB. But was that inevitable? After all, everyone always says that's the "best one", so why shouldn't Disney mandate that it serve as inspiration?

      About six hours to go, now!

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      • #4
        I watched it. No spoilers, but you'll have some answers (one of which seems tailor made to subvert speculations XD), some mysteries remain, and some good twists and unexpected things in there as well. If you are the emotional sort, you may cry. I like Star Wars too much to give an unbiased critique, but in my opinion it was an amazing movie, though I can already imagine some things will draw nerd rage.



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        • #5
          Just got back from seeing it, and...huh.

          Will have to mull this one over for a couple of days, but I don't think it is or will be my favorite. Definitely well-made, acted and enjoyable, with some *great* crowd-pleasing moments, and a VERY high HSQ! The story really went in some unexpected directions...you know how people sometimes say an installment in a series "felt like fanfiction"? Kinda got that vibe here in places. And there were a couple of things in the movie that were so underused, basically wasted, that I really wonder why they were even there! I've heard that, despite this being the longest SW movie yet, there's a ton of deleted scenes, and some of that is apparent (kind of SPOILER: If you've been following news of the movie, esp about things like Luke's compass, Vaders' Kyber crystal, etc, then you will probably be disappointed to learn that absolutely NONE OF THAT is in this movie, *at all*!).

          Any questions?

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          • #6
            I came away feeling that The Force Awakens was a superior movie, all around. TFA had a lot of issues, but overall it felt cohesive and solid. With the Last Jedi, as mentioned, there was a lot of material that felt completely pointless. In TFA most of the material had a point, with the exception of the monster-scene on board the transport ship that the Millennium Falcon was taken too - that scene could have been cut without losing anything. In The Last Jedi there was also some big changes to the way the Force worked and what it was capable of doing, stuff that might have felt perfectly fine in an anime but less so in Star Wars. I definitely preferred the Force as being mysterious and subtle rather than what it seems they are going to be doing with it.

            I was also unhappy with
            the decision to make Rey not related to anyone. I felt that causes issues with the greater idea of Star Wars. Episodes 1-3 are the story of Anakin Skywalker. Episodes 4-6 are about his son Luke Skywalker. And then episodes 7-9 come along and they're about someone completely unrelated to either of them. IMO Rey's status as someone unrelated to Luke and Anakin makes episode 7-9 feel more like a spin-off set in the same universe than as a continuation to the story of Anakin and Luke Skywalker.
            Last edited by AnubisXy; 12-15-2017, 07:46 PM.

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            • #7
              Weird takeaway, but the music made me cry in TLJ several times. Leia’s Theme and Binary Sunset both hit me like a punch to the gut in their respective third act moments.


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              • #8
                Personally, despite some of the pacing issues in the middle of the film, I found it better than the TFA. Not as good as Empire but a great film never the less.

                And unlike TFA, there were moments that truly surprised me. Han getting killed didn't surprise. Hell, I had known for years that Ford thought that Han should have been killed in RotJ. And the sence was so utterly staged that we all knew it was coming.

                Originally posted by atamajakki View Post
                Weird takeaway, but the music made me cry in TLJ several times. Leia’s Theme and Binary Sunset both hit me like a punch to the gut in their respective third act moments.
                Wouldn't surprise me if the former was in part because of the tragic passing of Carrie Fisher and this is the last time we'll see her...


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                • #9
                  I won’t be able to see it until Monday and avoiding spoilers has been a hell of a chore. Haven’t read a single post in this thread, just posting this without any context to vent my frustration about it.


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                  • #10
                    I do have to wonder why the casino arc exists at all. The movie would be objectively better and about twenty minutes shorter if the plot was “we need a codebreaker - and we have one here! let’s get going,” rather than that drawn-out mess.

                    Also BIG SPOILERS I CAN’T APPROPRIATELY HIDE BECAUSE I’M ON MOBILE: ...what’s the point of Lule projecting his image across such a massive distance with the Force if the effort kills him anyway? If we want to have Luke die being a diversion, why not just actually have him there? The odd plotting there had me scratching my head, even if the shot of thr Tattooine sunset made me cry the hardest I have in months.


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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by atamajakki View Post
                      I do have to wonder why the casino arc exists at all. The movie would be objectively better and about twenty minutes shorter if the plot was “we need a codebreaker - and we have one here! let’s get going,” rather than that drawn-out mess.

                      Also BIG SPOILERS I CAN’T APPROPRIATELY HIDE BECAUSE I’M ON MOBILE: ...what’s the point of Lule projecting his image across such a massive distance with the Force if the effort kills him anyway? If we want to have Luke die being a diversion, why not just actually have him there? The odd plotting there had me scratching my head, even if the shot of thr Tattooine sunset made me cry the hardest I have in months.

                      SPOILERS IN THIS POST, READ AT YOUR OWN RISK


                      I don't think the casino in particular was necessary, but I think scenes dedicated to character development of Rose were a good idea. If they were gonna introduce a new love interest for Finn at all, might as well expand on them a bit. I think it also served decently to show how, despite being in tatters, the Rebel Alliance is still a beacon of hope across the galaxy, immediately recognized by the downtrodden everywhere and setting up the final scenes with the kids.

                      As for Luke's Projection, I guess someone REALLY wanted Luke's "Dragon Ball Z" scene and could only justify it as an illusion XD
                      It certainly messes with the fans emotions, though. "He survived that without a scratch! Oh NOOOOO, Kylo killed him! Oh, it was just an illusion, Luke could project from that far?! Wait, no, NOOOOOO!"
                      Of course, as soon as Luke showed up looking like he looked back when Kylo was little, many probably already figured out something was going on. I imagine many concluded an illusion was involved when Luke survived that barrage like it was nothing, so it is arguable how effective it was. I went in expecting Luke would die, so it was not that shocking to me. Yoda got me entirely by surprise, though. Now I'm expecting Rey will have some help/advice from Force-Spirit Luke in Episode 9


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                      • #12
                        There were quite a few things I liked in the film, and elements (mostly structural) that I view as problematic without detracting from the overall enjoyment. I'll talk more about that once we can be more open.

                        Still, as part of the history of my discussion of the films on this particular board, one element that I particularly liked
                        was it putting the kibosh on the idea that there's anything important or meaningful in Rey's backstory, rather than her just being exactly what she seemed to be; a random orphan abandoned in the space equivalent of a third world country.


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                        • #13
                          I for one do not like the new trilogy, if this is the direction they are taking it. Episode 7 was just the original trilogy crammed into one movie, and I will defy every single one of you who tries to argue with me otherwise.

                          Also, what the hell is this?

                          Episode 6 - Return of the Jedi

                          Episode 8 - The Last Jedi

                          God Damn It!

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                          • #14
                            Okay! Saw it last night, read the thread, ready to do some post-movie discussion.

                            Originally posted by AnubisXy View Post
                            I was also unhappy with
                            the decision to make Rey not related to anyone. I felt that causes issues with the greater idea of Star Wars. Episodes 1-3 are the story of Anakin Skywalker. Episodes 4-6 are about his son Luke Skywalker. And then episodes 7-9 come along and they're about someone completely unrelated to either of them. IMO Rey's status as someone unrelated to Luke and Anakin makes episode 7-9 feel more like a spin-off set in the same universe than as a continuation to the story of Anakin and Luke Skywalker.
                            Don’t be so sure about that.
                            There’s always the possibility that Kylo was lying. He’s so committed to his goal of letting the past die, telling Ray that she has no past is exactly what he would do if she did have an important past. Or he could have not seen anything about her past, or he could have been telling the truth “from a certain point of view.”

                            Personally, I hope they stick with this explanation because I actually prefer the statement that force sensitivity isn’t just a matter of lineage, and that it doesn’t matter where Ray comes from, what matters is where she’s going. Plus if they turn around in the next one and say “just kidding”, it’s going to shake the audience’s trust in any future plot reveals the Disney Star Wars films make, which is not what they need.

                            That said, the thing that makes me think they still might go that route is the mirror dice that TLJ really seemed to want us to know were important. They clearly meant something to Luke, Leiah, and Kylo, but nothing to us (unless they’re brought up in one of the books or something). So I imagine their significance will be revealed in 9, and I’m wondering if it might symbolize that Han and Leiah had twins.


                            Originally posted by atamajakki View Post
                            Also BIG SPOILERS I CAN’T APPROPRIATELY HIDE BECAUSE I’M ON MOBILE:
                            ...what’s the point of Lule projecting his image across such a massive distance with the Force if the effort kills him anyway? If we want to have Luke die being a diversion, why not just actually have him there? The odd plotting there had me scratching my head, even if the shot of thr Tattooine sunset made me cry the hardest I have in months.
                            I had the same thought at first, but after some thought, there is an explanation that comes to mind.
                            This means Kylo might not know Luke is dead.


                            I have very mixed feelings on where they went with Snoke.
                            On one hand, I’m actually really glad that they didn’t try to do some big reveal with his identity. He didn’t need to be the reincarnation of Darth Plaegis, or Bane, or have have some other connection to a big bad who has barely if ever been mentioned in the films and wouldn’t resonate with casual fans who don’t read all the comics and novels and play all the games. And I’m totally down with his part in the story being done. It was never about him, and his part to play in Kylo and Rey’s story is over now. I think that was a smart choice. But I do wish there had been some explanation for where this absurdly powerful dark force user came from and why he flew completely under the radar during the events of the previous movies. Even something as simple as “Fool! You think you can defeat me, when the Jedi of Old could not?” or “So many years dormant, hiding my power from the watchful Jedi has finally paid off” or whatever. Just one line to let us know they had a clear picture of where he fit into the universe instead of just being Diabolus Ex Machina.


                            Overall, I enjoyed the film. It has some flaws, but what Star Wars Movie doesn’t? Though at this point, I think I’m more interested in the Star Wars Stories than the main series. I adored Rogue One, I think because it was refreshing to see a movie in the Star Wars universe that was focused on ordinary people instead of the struggles of the galaxy’s most powerful force users. And I’ve been very lukewarm on the main series films so far. Stuff I like, stuff I dislike, but nothing I really love.
                            Last edited by Charlaquin; 12-19-2017, 02:40 PM.


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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Charlaquin View Post
                              Don’t be so sure about that.
                              There’s always the possibility that Kylo was lying. He’s so committed to his goal of letting the past die, telling Ray that she has no past is exactly what he would do if she did have an important past. Or he could have not seen anything about her past, or he could have been telling the truth “from a certain point of view.”

                              Personally, I hope they stick with this explanation because I actually prefer the statement that force sensitivity isn’t just a matter of lineage, and that it doesn’t matter where Ray comes from, what matters is where she’s going. Plus if they turn around in the next one and say “just kidding”, it’s going to shake the audience’s trust in any future plot reveals the Disney Star Wars films make, which is not what they need.

                              That said, the thing that makes me think they still might go that route is the mirror dice that TLJ really seemed to want us to know were important. They clearly meant something to Luke, Leiah, and Kylo, but nothing to us (unless they’re brought up in one of the books or something). So I imagine their significance will be revealed in 9, and I’m wondering if it might symbolize that Han and Leiah had twins.
                              To be fair, in Star Wars being force sensitive has never had anything to do with lineage, and people who are force sensitive can and did crop up anywhere. Remember that the Jedi generally didn't have children as relationships were frowned on, so pretty much every single Jedi that you saw in the movies, with the exception of Luke, were not members of huge lines of Force users, but rather were just random people who had a talent and were brought into the Jedi order.

                              On the other hand, while being force sensitive has nothing to do with lineage, the Star Wars movies themselves did have a lot to do with lineage, specifically Anakin and Luke's. Star Wars 1-6 were never simply a grab bag of random movies starring random people that take place in the same universe, they were about the story of Anakin and his son Luke. I wouldn't mind Rey being unrelated to anyone, if this were a spin-off story in the Star Wars universe. But as a continuation of the thread of Anakin and Luke Skywalker's stories through movies 1-6, it doesn't really work for me when movies 7-9 have a main character who is unrelated to either of them.

                              I do agree though that at this point I hope Kylo wasn't lying because that would overall be even worse.

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