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Star Wars: The Last Jedi

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  • Originally posted by Charlaquin View Post

    I have. If I were to guess, I’d say Satcom watches Shadiversiry.
    Not that I'm aware of.

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    • Originally posted by Satcom View Post
      Not that I'm aware of.
      Fair enough. Just a guess, as I saw a very similar critique of the same scene there.


      Onyx Path Forum Moderator

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      • I'm just going to throw my .02 in here. I saw TLJ and I...nothing the movie I guess. Let me explain. I grew up in the 90s, so the Original Series what it until I was out of high school. I actually liked the prequels, so there's that. But until TFA showed up, I was deep into the Expanded Universe. I read almost all the books, played the video and tabletop games, and generally considered it the history of what happened after Episode VI. So when TFA came out, I thought it was cool, but for me it wasn't what "really" happened. I liked it, but it didn't hit all the emotional notes the old EU did for me.
        TLJ was a good movie in an objective sense. Good direction, great acting, etc. I didn't particularly like what they did with the story, but I understand why certain choices were made. I don't particularly like those choices when compared with what happened in, say, the Thrawn Trilogy, or the Fate of the Jedi for later books, but that's ok.
        I loved Rogue One, am excited to finally see Solo, and am 100% ambivalent for Ep 9. It just isn't MY Star Wars, as I understand it, and that's ok. I don't have to like the movies. I wish I did, and honestly it makes me really sad that I don't like TLJ because I have waited for so darn long for more movies, but I can live with it.
        As an aside, I think the decision to have Rey's parents be no one special is a good one. One of the big strengths of the Expanded Universe was the introduction of non-Solo/Skywalker Jedi characters. Didn't detract from the main characters at all, but added to the story.

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        • /

          I, for a long time, absolutely despised the prequels ... then, "The Last Jedi" was released.

          Now, looking back, I have a new found appreciation for the prequel trilogy. It has character & story continuity. Even though some of the story was juvenile in its approach, it was uniform and fit the basic novelle. As many mistakes as Lucas made with these movies, I would rather have his storytelling than the current disillusioned franchise.

          It hit me how unoriginal the Disney SW movies are even to the point where they couldn’t even change the design of ships 30 years later after ROTJ as Xwings and Star Destroyer have not evolved with technology? Lucas at least gave us that, and took the time to show how technology changed from Episode 1 to Episode 4.

          I went back and have a new appreciation for the story Lucas was telling in the Prequel Trilogy as it was original and the overall arc tied into the Original Trilogy to make a consistent 1-6 narrative.

          Where Lucas went wrong was writing, directing and doing everything as he should have been more collaborative like the OT, because the execution is the real problem with the PT.

          The Storytelling in these new films is just some retread of the OT with a few left turns to make us feel like its original. Snoke dies in part 2 instead part 3, so now it’s supposed to be genius writing! There is no theme to this Trilogy that ties with 1-6 as I still don’t know what the point is and why it’s called 7-9?

          Johnson's pitch to Kennedy was that he was going to tell a whole New Story, one where they introduced new characters and places.

          If you are creating a Whole New Story, then this is Not a continuation of the Original Story Line. The current strand of movies, should not be considered 7-9, Rather, 1, 2 & 3 of a Story that takes place in the Star Wars Theme. Especially when information came out that Johnson was intending to spread this story into A New Galaxy. ??? Why go extramural Galaxy, when there are so many places there within the already developed Galaxy yet to see?

          So, here is a video clip of Rian Johnson which pretty much sums up what everyone has been saying about him https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Fbtat5iPm4

          Yes, he proves that by not knowing the source information enough to formulate a logical direction.

          Then there has been the question as to why make Luke some Curmudgeon on an uncharted isolated planet.

          I'll tell you exactly why they made Luke the hermit on a remote planet island ... Lazy as F*ck Storytelling.

          Just like "The Force Awakens" "The Last Jedi" told a completely unoriginal tale. Rian Johnson simply ripped off more Story context from the original trilogy.

          Think of when Luke went to find Ben Kenobi [Obi-Wan]:
          --- He was a hermit [✔]

          --- He failed at teaching the most powerfully gifted inherent Force adept in the galaxy [✔]

          --- His Star pupil murdered all of the students in Jedi training while turning to the Dark Side [✔]

          --- The now former Star pupil is the apprentice to & strong arm of the Dark Sith Lord who leads the galaxy wide military that seeks out and slaughters all who would raise up against them [✔]

          --- His former Star Pupil now Crusader for the Dark Side killed his Sith Lord Master to save the protagonist of the movie [✔]

          Now think of when Luke went to seek out Yoda:

          --- Yoda lived on a remote Planet no one ever goes to [✔]

          --- Yoda was stubborn and did not want to teach Luke the ways of being a Jedi [✔]

          --- Yoda eventually gave in to teach Luke how to focus his Force abilities [✔]

          --- The hero ran off without finishing his training to help friends in danger [✔]

          Nothing about this series is creative or original. These first two Disney Star Wars flicks are a simple poor retelling of Star Wars episodes IV V & VI ... and the only thing new they added, were in your face real world ideologies, that were implanted to force politics into the movies.

          I do not want to think about what is happening in real world society when I go to see a Space Fantasy designated in a Galaxy Far Far Away. I come to see these movies to take me away from the real world, as an escape for a couple of hours.

          If you're going to force your politics in my face, wait until the premiere, and have your cast voice their opinions [which are scripted and really your opinions] on the Red Carpet during the interview as they enter the theater.

          Putting this into a movie that already has its own political upheaval, simply makes no sense whatsoever.

          .
          .
          .

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          • It's always been the case with Star Wars, due to it's enormous popularity, that the movies have never quite matched what fans think inside their own heads about the quality or integrity of the stories involved. If you look at the series as a whole, it's desperately inconsistent and unlike other franchises it doesn't have another medium source (like literature or comics) to fall back on in case the movie doesn't work out.

            For the record, I actually liked large parts of The Last Jedi - in my view, Luke Skywalker has never been presented in such a human and yet, by the end, really cool way. However, my favourite Star Wars movies are the original and Rogue One, fundamentally because they were self contained stories that didn't require you to watch and essentially adulate the series as a whole. For fanboy movies, I'll probably prefer Dune a lot more when it comes out in a few years time.
            Last edited by Trippy; 09-02-2018, 05:39 AM.

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            • Originally posted by ChewyGranola View Post
              It just isn't MY Star Wars, as I understand it, and that's ok. I don't have to like the movies
              I wish more people thought the way you do. Thanks for saying...

              Sorry it wasn't for you, but I'm glad you're not trashing all things star wars just because you personally didn't like it.



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              • Originally posted by Quiet Storm View Post
                It hit me how unoriginal the Disney SW movies are even to the point where they couldn’t even change the design of ships 30 years later after ROTJ as Xwings and Star Destroyer have not evolved with technology? Lucas at least gave us that, and took the time to show how technology changed from Episode 1 to Episode 4.

                Ok, I have to comment on this.

                One, in the old EU, the Star Wars universe was technologically stagnant. They'd had hyperdrive technology for thousands of a years. Why in 30 years would technology need to advance? Especially under the rule of the Empire? 30 years in a spacefairing society is nothing. Why wouldn't the same ships still be in use? Granted, that was the old EU, but I'd still think in the new cannon that idea that Galaxy is technological stagnant still holds true.

                To that point, and for a real world equivalent, this video summed it up nicely:

                https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p4zU-90QbvE


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                • Originally posted by Trippy View Post
                  However, my favourite Star Wars movies are the original and Rogue One, fundamentally because they were self contained stories that didn't require you to watch and essentially adulate the series as a whole.
                  Hey, me too! I mean, I still rank ESB and RotJ over Rogue One because the original trilogy is a great self-contained story in three parts, but it’s definitely my favorite outside the originals.

                  I think Star Wars A New Hope was a fantastic standalone story, and Empire and Jedi were an unplanned two-part sequel that miraculously turned out well for once. The prequels did what prequels do and made the overall story weaker by adding a bunch of unnecessary context to a story that was just fine without it. The 4, 5, 2, 3, 6 viewing order kinda sorta works by reframing Anakin’s story as part of Luke’s instead of its own, but the execution just isn’t quite there. TFA was eh, same story as New Hope again, but this time with as much nostalgia pandering as they could squeeze in and a side-helping of Abrams mystery box, but I forgave it because I knew Disney had to do everything they could to endear themselves to the fans after the buyout. Then Rogue One was, while not a perfect move, the best since the original trilogy. And The Last Jedi, while also not perfect, did it’s damnedest to let the past die (killing it, if it had to) in hopes that we might finally get a new damn story in this universe that isn’t completely defined by its relationship to the original trilogy. Hopefully we get it once they finish this trilogy.


                  Onyx Path Forum Moderator

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                  • I think the best thing for Star Wars would be to let it fall into the public domain. Let literally anyone cook up a Star Wars short story, movie, novel, video game, et cetera.

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                    • Originally posted by TheCountAlucard View Post
                      I think the best thing for Star Wars would be to let it fall into the public domain. Let literally anyone cook up a Star Wars short story, movie, novel, video game, et cetera.
                      Honestly I think that's true for many franchises.

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                      • Originally posted by AnubisXy View Post
                        Honestly I think that's true for many franchises.
                        Imagine if anyone who wanted to could do a Batman or Superman movie of their own. I mean, yeah, sure, we still probably would've gotten a turd as loathsome as Dawn of Justice, but there'd've been a chance at a few gems that year, too.

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                        • I'm... not that confident.

                          I think in most mediums, going public domain generally works for a franchise, but comics, prose, even theatre, and such are much smaller endeavors. Films, especially feature length films, have a very bad history with public domain properties, that seems fairly linked to the sheer size of production necessary.

                          The history of public domain properties in films is consistently lots and lots of turds for every OK movie, and then lots of those for anything you can consider a gem.

                          There are ~200 Dracula movies out there (obviously you run into some counting issues based on a number of factors)... how many of them are gems? Not a lot.

                          Going public domain also isn't going to address the, "Not my [Franchise]" phenomenon even when handled maturely. It just gives more things for people to argue about. As someone like ChewyGranola, the EU was "my Star Wars," but even then there was a lot of fandom arguments (esp. once the Internet got more popular) about various EU works such as the earlier books that aren't that consistent with canon and the rest of the EU (*cough* Splinter of the Mind's Eye *cough*), and whether certain novels should be discarded because the author "didn't get Star Wars." Tossing all the Star Wars fan fic into the mix and having to sort the wheat from the chaff doesn't seem like a recipe for franchise health; even if a few good novels or comics might have been made that otherwise wouldn't (within the Star Wars universe, since some people just make their own setting and all that).

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                          • Originally posted by Heavy Arms View Post
                            The history of public domain properties in films is consistently lots and lots of turds for every OK movie, and then lots of those for anything you can consider a gem.
                            ...like the somewhat more recent glut of Robin Hood and King Arthur adaptations?

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                            • I wonder if the 'everyone involved with this horrible movie should die in a fire' crowd would give up or just be spread a little thin.

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                              • Originally posted by Heavy Arms View Post
                                Films, especially feature length films, have a very bad history with public domain properties, that seems fairly linked to the sheer size of production necessary.
                                Right, it's not like anyone watched or enjoyed Snow White, Sleeping Beauty, Fantasia, Cinderella, Pinocchio, the Little Mermaid, Beauty and the Beast, Aladdin, Alice in Wonderland, Around the World in 80 Days, Atlantis, A Bug's Life, Chicken Little, A Christmas Carol, Frozen, Hercules, John Carter, Mulan, the Princess and the Frog, Tangled, Tarzan, The Adventures of Ichabod and Mr. Toad, the Jungle Book, the Three Musketeers, the Sword in the Stone, Treasure Planet, or Muppet Treasure Island.

                                ​Disney has consistently proven that the public domain can be a great source of cinematic inspiration. It's actually rather frustrating that they've strangled it so thoroughly after exploiting it so consistently.

                                Originally posted by Heavy Arms View Post
                                The history of public domain properties in films is consistently lots and lots of turds for every OK movie, and then lots of those for anything you can consider a gem.

                                There are ~200 Dracula movies out there (obviously you run into some counting issues based on a number of factors)... how many of them are gems? Not a lot.

                                Going public domain also isn't going to address the, "Not my [Franchise]" phenomenon even when handled maturely. It just gives more things for people to argue about. As someone like ChewyGranola, the EU was "my Star Wars," but even then there was a lot of fandom arguments (esp. once the Internet got more popular) about various EU works such as the earlier books that aren't that consistent with canon and the rest of the EU (*cough* Splinter of the Mind's Eye *cough*), and whether certain novels should be discarded because the author "didn't get Star Wars." Tossing all the Star Wars fan fic into the mix and having to sort the wheat from the chaff doesn't seem like a recipe for franchise health; even if a few good novels or comics might have been made that otherwise wouldn't (within the Star Wars universe, since some people just make their own setting and all that).
                                I think the sheer dearth we have of stuff that's been added to the public domain in recent years (thanks in no small part to Disney pushing for the laws about when things can the public domain being changed) makes these kinds of assumptions a bit iffy.
                                Last edited by TheCountAlucard; 09-03-2018, 02:49 AM.

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