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  • #16
    Originally posted by AnubisXy View Post

    To be fair, in Star Wars being force sensitive has never had anything to do with lineage, and people who are force sensitive can and did crop up anywhere. Remember that the Jedi generally didn't have children as relationships were frowned on, so pretty much every single Jedi that you saw in the movies, with the exception of Luke, were not members of huge lines of Force users, but rather were just random people who had a talent and were brought into the Jedi order.

    On the other hand, while being force sensitive has nothing to do with lineage, the Star Wars movies themselves did have a lot to do with lineage, specifically Anakin and Luke's. Star Wars 1-6 were never simply a grab bag of random movies starring random people that take place in the same universe, they were about the story of Anakin and his son Luke. I wouldn't mind Rey being unrelated to anyone, if this were a spin-off story in the Star Wars universe. But as a continuation of the thread of Anakin and Luke Skywalker's stories through movies 1-6, it doesn't really work for me when movies 7-9 have a main character who is unrelated to either of them.

    I do agree though that at this point I hope Kylo wasn't lying because that would overall be even worse.
    And Rey doesn’t need to be related to anyone important for this trilogy is still about Anakin’s lineage. That’s Kylo’s role.


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    • #17
      Well, I just got back from seeing it and I loved it. I also understand why it wouldn't work for people, but it worked for me.

      The bit with Leia surviving decompression and soaring back to the ship took me right out of it, though. I know she's a Skywalker, and that this is a franchise about magic space wizards and their laser wars, but that one just came out of left field.


      Edit:
      On a lighter note, if Ren ordering the army to fire on Luke doesn't become a meme I will declare the internet a failure.
      Last edited by Prometheus878; 12-19-2017, 04:09 PM.


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      • #18
        Originally posted by Prometheus878 View Post
        Well, I just got back from seeing it and I loved it. I also understand why it wouldn't work for people, but it worked for me.
        I think generally it’s going to work better for casual fans and disappoint the really hardcore ones.

        TFA set us up with a classic Abrams mystery box, and TLJ pretty much opened the box and showed us there wasn’t anything surprising in it. Now, it might turn out in 9 that there’s a false bottom in the box, but I think people’s reactions to the initial empty box reveal is going to depend on what Star Wars is to them. If you’re into the supplemental material and Star Wars is this massive, complex world to you, it’s going to be understandably disappointing that they are leaving all of that untapped potential... well, untapped, at least in the films. On the other hand, if Star Wars is a cool scifi take on the Hero’s Journey, you’re probably relieved that they didn’t convolute that with some crazy extra stuff that has only previously been established in non-Movie material you haven’t consumed. Also, if you like mystery boxes, this will probably be a disappointing reveal, but if you don’t, or if you like them but think they don’t belong in Star Wars, you’re probably relieved.


        Originally posted by Prometheus878 View Post
        The bit with Leia surviving decompression and soaring back to the ship took me right out of it, though. I know she's a Skywalker, and that this a franchise about magic space wizards and their laser wars, but that one just came out of left field.
        Yeah, that part was really dumb.


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        • #19
          Originally posted by Charlaquin View Post

          That said, the thing that makes me think they still might go that route is the mirror dice that TLJ really seemed to want us to know were important. They clearly meant something to Luke, Leiah, and Kylo, but nothing to us (unless they’re brought up in one of the books or something). So I imagine their significance will be revealed in 9, and I’m wondering if it might symbolize that Han and Leiah had twins.

          The dice first made an appearance in A New Hope, hanging in the Falcon. You can only see them in a few quick shots, but they're there. So, not super important, just something to remember Han by, basically.

          I suppose they could foreshadow something, but still...



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          • #20
            Originally posted by Charlaquin View Post
            Originally posted by Prometheus878 View Post
            The bit with Leia surviving decompression and soaring back to the ship took me right out of it, though. I know she's a Skywalker, and that this is a franchise about magic space wizards and their laser wars, but that one just came out of left field.
            Yeah, that part was really dumb.
            I kinda liked that part.


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            • #21
              Originally posted by Mr Gone View Post

              I kinda liked that part.
              Hm. I don't blame you, and since this is Carrie Fisher's last movie (god rest her soul) we can just let her be awesome. I'm willing to give it a pass, but I just wish it had been foreshadowed that she was stronger in the Force than she lets on.


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              • #22
                Originally posted by Mr Gone View Post


                The dice first made an appearance in A New Hope, hanging in the Falcon. You can only see them in a few quick shots, but they're there. So, not super important, just something to remember Han by, basically.

                I suppose they could foreshadow something, but still...
                Actually, apparently they’re mentioned in some EU material that I’m not familiar with to have been the dice Han used in the game where he won the Falcon from Lando. So, what their prominent appearance in TLJ is probably setting up is that game happening in the upcoming Han Solo movie. My mistake.


                Originally posted by Mr Gone View Post
                I kinda liked that part.
                Fair enough.


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                • #23
                  Saw it last night. It was fine. A bit too long, where I thought there were a number of scenes that could've been trimmed down or cut entirely.

                  The last few Star Wars movies, I feel like I'm going to see them JUST so I can say that I saw them. But I think that's over.

                  The movies are kinda fun, but ultimately nothing special. This movie definitely feels like it was the strongest in their entire library(which to me, isn't really saying much), though.


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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Prometheus878 View Post

                    Hm. I don't blame you, and since this is Carrie Fisher's last movie (god rest her soul) we can just let her be awesome. I'm willing to give it a pass, but I just wish it had been foreshadowed that she was stronger in the Force than she lets on.

                    It's probably something they touch on in the fiction or something, but yea, maybe could have been foreshadowed a bit. But, I thought it was great and I was totally shocked by it, especially her getting blown out into space! I gasped, because I thought for sure they'd just killed her.



                    Originally posted by Charlaquin View Post

                    Actually, apparently they’re mentioned in some EU material that I’m not familiar with to have been the dice Han used in the game where he won the Falcon from Lando. So, what their prominent appearance in TLJ is probably setting up is that game happening in the upcoming Han Solo movie. My mistake.

                    I had a feeling they'd probably been mentioned in the EU some where. Re-watching the original trilogy before seeing the new one, I thought I'd noticed something hanging in the Falcon. I turned to my wife and asked if Han had some fuzzy dice hanging. lol. So, it was cool to see them pop up in this movie.



                    Originally posted by Charlaquin View Post
                    Fair enough.
                    I can totally see why people might not like it...but thats ok. Can't all agree on the same stuff.


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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Mr Gone View Post

                      It's probably something they touch on in the fiction or something, but yea, maybe could have been foreshadowed a bit. But, I thought it was great and I was totally shocked by it, especially her getting blown out into space! I gasped, because I thought for sure they'd just killed her.
                      I loved the fake-out, because I’m pretty sure everyone was assuming the character would die in this movie. So making it look like it had happened only to have her survive thanks to her inherited force mastery was pretty great. And it’s not like there isn’t president for people using the force to survive the vacuum of space in EU material. But it’s just a bridge too far for my suspension of disbelief.


                      Originally posted by Mr Gone View Post

                      I had a feeling they'd probably been mentioned in the EU some where. Re-watching the original trilogy before seeing the new one, I thought I'd noticed something hanging in the Falcon. I turned to my wife and asked if Han had some fuzzy dice hanging. lol. So, it was cool to see them pop up in this movie.
                      For sure! I don’t think I would have taken as much notice if Luke had just taken them from the Falcon as a memento. The fact that he brought them to Leiah and her reaction to being given them just made it very clear that the movie wanted me to know there was a greater significance to them. And the fact that it was a Force Projection and not Luke actually giving them to her, it must have been a message of some kind, since it would have been impossible for her to keep them to remember him by.

                      Then the fact that they showed Kylo picking them up just further reinforced that that the dice have significance to all three of these characters and the filmmakers really want us as an audience to know that. Given that they had never been called attention to in the films before, and this movie made a point in other places of eschewing references to extra-film canon material in the interest of accessibility (e.g. the complete lack of detail on Snoke’s background even though there’s a ton of info out there about him in supplemental material at this point), my conclusion was that they’re going to be important later, and this is them setting up their importance. I assumed that would pay off in 9, but knowing their background, I think it’ll probably pay off in Solo. Though, there’s also the possibility both will happen.


                      Originally posted by Mr Gone View Post
                      I can totally see why people might not like it...but thats ok. Can't all agree on the same stuff.
                      Indeed. It also didn’t ruin the movie for me or anything. I can put up with “I don’t like sand”, and this is nothing compared to that
                      Last edited by Charlaquin; 12-20-2017, 02:58 PM.


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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Prometheus878 View Post
                        The bit with Leia surviving decompression and soaring back to the ship took me right out of it, though. I know she's a Skywalker, and that this is a franchise about magic space wizards and their laser wars, but that one just came out of left field.
                        Considering absolutely normal people can possibly survive up to a minute and half or so of unprotected space trip, I don't find it all that unlikely that the Force would allow her to survive, preserve her sight and so on like that, especially since Force users have well known telekinesis capabilities that could act as sort of a pressure-suit emergency substitute.


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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Charlaquin View Post
                          I loved the fake-out, because I’m pretty sure everyone was assuming the character would die in this movie. So making it look like it had happened only to have her survive thanks to her inherited force mastery was pretty great. And it’s not like there isn’t president for people using the force to survive the vacuum of space in EU material. But it’s just a bridge too far for my suspension of disbelief.

                          Yea, the fake out was great! I'd heard before hand that she survived the movie, but when I saw that, I thought what I'd heard was maybe the fake out. lol.

                          But, I'm good with the surviving in space thing. If it'd been longer than a few minutes, then I might not be able to go with it, but I was ok with the way they handed it. It's not perfect mind you, but still.


                          Originally posted by Charlaquin View Post
                          For sure! I don’t think I would have taken as much notice if Luke had just taken them from the Falcon as a memento. The fact that he brought them to Leiah and her reaction to being given them just made it very clear that the movie wanted me to know there was a greater significance to them. And the fact that it was a Force Projection and not Luke actually giving them to her, it must have been a message of some kind, since it would have been impossible for her to keep them to remember him by.

                          Then the fact that they showed Kylo picking them up just further reinforced that that the dice have significance to all three of these characters and the filmmakers really want us as an audience to know that. Given that they had never been called attention to in the films before, and this movie made a point in other places of eschewing references to extra-film canon material in the interest of accessibility (e.g. the complete lack of detail on Snoke’s background even though there’s a ton of info out there about him in supplemental material at this point), my conclusion was that they’re going to be important later, and this is them setting up their importance. I assumed that would pay off in 9, but knowing their background, I think it’ll probably pay off in Solo. Though, there’s also the possibility both will happen.

                          Yea, maybe it'll end meaning something more than I think. I'm almost positive we'll see them in the Han Solo movie.


                          Originally posted by Charlaquin View Post
                          Indeed. It also didn’t ruin the movie for me or anything. I can put up with “I don’t like sand”, and this is nothing compared to that
                          Ha!! That reminds me, I saw a funny YouTube video related to that. It's from a Star Wars channel called Star Wars Theory, and sometimes he does some fan fictiony type videos, and he did a what-if called "What if Anakin liked Sand". Cracked me up!



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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Mr Gone View Post
                            Ha!! That reminds me, I saw a funny YouTube video related to that. It's from a Star Wars channel called Star Wars Theory, and sometimes he does some fan fictiony type videos, and he did a what-if called "What if Anakin liked Sand". Cracked me up!
                            I’ve seen some of his stuff, it’s pretty good. It was kind of sad seeing him kind of go into denial about Last Jedi though. Like, sorry dude, but it’s clear at this point that your “inside source” who’s been feeding you “leaks” about TLJ was just trolling you. If they turn around and reveal all of that stuff was accurate in 9, I will... be very surprised.


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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Charlaquin View Post
                              I’ve seen some of his stuff, it’s pretty good. It was kind of sad seeing him kind of go into denial about Last Jedi though. Like, sorry dude, but it’s clear at this point that your “inside source” who’s been feeding you “leaks” about TLJ was just trolling you. If they turn around and reveal all of that stuff was accurate in 9, I will... be very surprised.
                              Yea, I was a little sad that he didn't seem to care for it too much. Maybe he'll come around on it though. But, I suppose he's not alone. The internet has been going crazy with people raging on this movie. I have a friend who's just been a complete asshole to me about how much he hates it. People need to calm down...it's just a movie.

                              But yea, I don't think any of that stuff will be accurate. I don't any of the theory stuff I saw on youtube was right... I mean, it's fun to speculate, but not to the point that it ruins things for you if they aren't true...


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                              • #30
                                I think it’s funny for how much crap Rey got about being a Marry Sue that so many folks are so upset about Luke having flaws. (Does that need a spoiler tag?)


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