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Star Wars: The Last Jedi

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  • #91
    Originally posted by TheCountAlucard View Post
    How does that follow?

    In order for that to not be the case, the stores would have to move a shit ton of Star Wars merchandise over the last several months, which has already been rotting on the shelves for over 2 years.

    If you're honestly trying to convince me that is the case, you are on a whole new plane of denial!

    And it's not just one chain of stores either. The guy goes to visit a bunch of different stores, and it's the same story with all of them. The isles are packed with Star Wars merchandise that nobody wants!

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    • #92
      Originally posted by Nyrufa View Post
      But that doesn't change the fact that a hefty bulk of movie profits come from China, and the movies are tanking over there. And so is the merchandise, as the previous videos I linked will demonstrate. If the franchise isn't making money, then the franchise can't sustain itself, and is going to die.
      Star Wars is making money, but not as good as Disney was hoping, especially in comparison to the Marvel movies. But, even Black Panther which was one of the biggest movies Disney has released in years did comparatively poorly in China. Again, there's a lot of reasons why Star Wars has not been doing great in China - having black actors front and center is one reason. Another is simply that Star Wars does not have the cultural resonance in China that it does in the West since the original movies were not widely watched in China back during the 70's and early 80's when the country was still in the process of recovering from the Great Leap Forward and foreign media was heavily censored.

      Looking at only the Chinese box office and making judgements gives us a very narrow perspective - again, if we were only looking at the Chinese box office then Black Panther would be considered a flop, even though it's one of the most successful movies of all time at the world box office level.

      That said, while the Marvel movies have been getting bigger audiences and larger scores of revenues with every movie, the Star Wars movies seem to be moving in the opposite direction and the movies are doing worse. That's definitely an issue. I think many older Star Wars fans are unhappy with the direction the movies have been taking.

      I know many old Star Wars fan who felt that The Last Jedi was nothing less than a slap in the face towards the fans of the franchise and quite a few people I know said they were no longer interested in watching Star Wars movies. That's one of the reasons why Solo did so poorly, and I suspect that subsequent Star Wars movies will keep doing worse and worse until they make a serious effort to try and bring the old fans back to the franchise.
      Last edited by AnubisXy; 07-17-2018, 12:31 PM.

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      • #93
        Originally posted by AnubisXy View Post


        I know many old Star Wars fan who felt that The Last Jedi was nothing less than a slap in the face towards the fans of the franchise and quite a few people I know said they were no longer interested in watching Star Wars movies. That's one of the reasons why Solo did so poorly, and I suspect that subsequent Star Wars movies will keep doing worse and worse until they make a serious effort to try and bring the old fans back to the franchise.
        That's what I've been trying to say this whole time.

        Personally, I am sick to death of seeing prequel settings taking place before or during the period in which the original trilogy takes place. I have been waiting practically my whole life to see what happens after the death of Emperor Palpatine and the Jedi's return to the galaxy. And after decades of waiting, what do they give us for episode 7? A reenactment of the original trilogy crammed into one movie. And after that, we get The Last Jedi, which meant that all of Luke's efforts to defeat the empire and restore the peace keepers of the galaxy was for nothing.

        This was the guy who was desperate for adventure and believed that there was still goodness in his father, which proved to be the case when he gave his own life to safe Luke's. And look at him now, he's a bitter old hermit who couldn't care less what happens to the galaxy, or that the one responsible for all the devastation is his own nephew.

        Those who say that the characters have been acting out of character are right. Hell, even the actors themselves (or at least Mark Hamill) have acknowledged that they are not acting like the character should be acting.

        This is NOT what I was hoping to see with the Star Wars franchise going forward, and it is NOT what I want to give my continued support to. If the people responsible for producing Star Wars content are so terrified of moving the series beyond the events of A New Hope, then they should just acknowledge that the franchise is dead in the water, and bring the saga to a close.

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        • #94
          Originally posted by Nyrufa View Post
          And after decades of waiting, what do they give us for episode 7? A reenactment of the original trilogy crammed into one movie.
          Did we watch the same movie?

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          • #95
            Originally posted by Nyrufa View Post



            After watching The Force Awakens and realizing that I've already seen that story a dozen times over the last 20 years? No, I did not go see The Last Jedi. In fact, the very name of the movie infuriates me, because the entire point of the original trilogy was leading up to the RETURN of the Jedi. And then over the course of these last 2 movies, we switch back to the Jedi being driven to the brink of extinction. Fuck you Disney, fuck you!

            My only consolation is that Lucas is probably laughing his ass off right now as he watches the people who paid him billions of dollars for the franchise continue to drive it into the ground.
            Lucas wanted the next trilogy to be a Fantastic Journey style meeting of the midichlorians, so if anything he's probably sighing with relief over that dodged bullet.

            As for the rest of this, meh. Your hostility towards the series is about boring as Star Wars was before the reboot. I don't care to go into it, but I fucking love The Last Jedi for basically giving the franchise a much needed self-reflective kick in the pants. "The Star Wars Universe is ultimately the story of Skywalkers and Palpatines"? Fuck that shit, here's someone who has no fucking connection to anything coming in and breaking the damn cycle. "The Force is basically cool powers that come with people basically having power levels in it?" Fuck that shit, here's a reminder of what the fucking Force is. "Star Wars is joyful, meaningless fantasy about Space Jesus and his friends, the Static Rogues and Politicians?" Fuck that shit, here's taking Star Wars omni-present political theming and shoving it in your face with flawed, interesting characters who are driven by reconciling with their perceptions, all the while using the franchise perchance to looping around in the mire as meaningful commentary on the dangers of living in the past and attempting to reclaim lost glory, possibly one of the most harmful mindsets in any society.

            The Last Jedi was a breath of fresh air for me. I know a lot of people compare it to Empire Strikes Back, and for good reason, but the movie it reminded me the most of was A New Hope, because it stripped so much of the storytelling bullshit that was plaguing the franchise and threw it all in the trash, allowing Star Wars to shine brighter than it ever did before.

            So. Yeah. Sorry you don't like it, but I just don't care. TLJ is my favorite Star Wars film, because it managed to make me fall in love with Star Wars again when I thought that could never happen.


            Sean K.I.W./Kelly R.A. Steele, Freelance Writer(Feel free to call me Sean, Kelly, Arcane, or Arc)
            The world is not beautiful, therefore it is.-Keiichi Sigsawa, Kino's Journey
            Male/neutral pronouns accepted, female pronouns enjoyed.
            Currently Working On: The Noble and the Sovereign, Blog

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            • #96
              Mark Hamill retracted his statements about Luke, and in fact affirmed that they match his own disillusionment and growth. TLJ was a love-letter to the power and inspiration of the original trilogy, its entire narrative throughline is about maintaining hope even in the face of disappointment and the importance of owning up to your own mistakes.

              If you're going to call characters out for behaving out-of-character, you should at least see the movie and confirm whether or not you're correct. General Leia was perfectly written and Luke's arc through the film was nothing short of beautiful.


              "Nihhina kalekal-zidu kal masun, kal manudanadu. Nihhina kalekal-zidu nukal shaghu-desasudu — nihhina kalekal-zidu kal innu-desasudu udhkal samm." Arthur Ashe
              Check out my tumblr for Chronicles of Darkness-related musings
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              • #97
                Originally posted by TheCountAlucard View Post
                Did we watch the same movie?

                Clearly not, because the entire time we were sitting through Episode 7, my dad and I couldn't help but point out all the scenes that were ripping off Episodes 4, 5 and 6!

                Originally posted by ArcaneArts View Post


                So. Yeah. Sorry you don't like it, but I just don't care.

                Well that's rather rude and uncalled for.

                So you like the movie, that doesn't mean that I or anyone else are somehow bad for disagreeing with you.

                If you think that the "changes" presented in the new trilogy bring fresh light to the franchise, that's your opinion. But I don't see it that way. Much of what I'm seeing so far is trying to bank on the success of the original trilogy, and the parts that do try to incorporate change to the story are so badly handled that they come across as cheap, forced and insulting to everything I knew and loved about the franchise growing up.
                Last edited by Nyrufa; 07-17-2018, 01:26 PM.

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                • #98
                  Point of clarity: When I say I was bored with Star Wars, I mean I was so bored with it, even the original trilogy bored me.

                  When I say TLJ made me fall in love with Star Wars again, I also mean it made me fall in love with the originally trilogy again. And not in a "Oh, this is better than that, I see that now"-no, I mean in a "Because I love this new thing, I also remember why I loved this original trilogy."

                  I really just have no fucks for the hate. Star Wars as a story was never great-the original trilogy was more meaningful as a technical masterpiece and a huge change to cinematic language-and a lot of how I deal with it is based on how I feel as a result-and for years, even sort of enjoying Force Awakens, I jsut felt dead towards Star Wars. So Yeah, something that makes me Give A Shit wins.


                  Sean K.I.W./Kelly R.A. Steele, Freelance Writer(Feel free to call me Sean, Kelly, Arcane, or Arc)
                  The world is not beautiful, therefore it is.-Keiichi Sigsawa, Kino's Journey
                  Male/neutral pronouns accepted, female pronouns enjoyed.
                  Currently Working On: The Noble and the Sovereign, Blog

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                  • #99
                    Originally posted by TheCountAlucard View Post
                    Did we watch the same movie?
                    No, because as Nyrufa said, they didn’t watch the movie.


                    Onyx Path Forum Moderator

                    My mod voice is red. I use it so you know when I'm speaking in an official capacity, not as an indication of tone.

                    Going by Willow now, or Wil for short. She/Her/Hers.

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                    • Originally posted by Nyrufa View Post
                      Well that's rather rude and uncalled for.
                      Kettle, meet pot.


                      Sean K.I.W./Kelly R.A. Steele, Freelance Writer(Feel free to call me Sean, Kelly, Arcane, or Arc)
                      The world is not beautiful, therefore it is.-Keiichi Sigsawa, Kino's Journey
                      Male/neutral pronouns accepted, female pronouns enjoyed.
                      Currently Working On: The Noble and the Sovereign, Blog

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                      • Originally posted by Nyrufa View Post
                        No, because 'diversity' and 'equality' in and of themselves are fine. The way in which this movie attempted to portray them, however, was utter garbage. And many, MANY people will agree with that. Popular franchises don't crash and burn because they're doing something right. They crash and burn because they're making terrible choices and losing the support of those who continue to sustain it.
                        Eh, you may feel comfortable just agreeing with whatever group is louder or more numerous but even not liking the Star Wars series and expecting a retread of one of the original trilogies, I saw the movie. And it didn't really attempt to portray diversity or equality in an 'utter garbage' way. There's no difference between Rey and Luke or Anakin except that she's a she. They're all 'special' force wielders, who are already special to begin with, but the movie really doesn't focus on her, and in most of her scenes she plays second fiddle to Kylo Ren or Luke while still being her own character.

                        Star Wars is a dying franchise. This is not the outcry of a few radical fans. This is an objective fact, Star Wars merchandise is failing to sell.
                        Well, the toys sold worse this year is an objective fact. 'Star Wars is a dying franchise,' is more an ambiguous statement. People who want to blame minorities and women seem to be loud about how bad it is, but it doesn't seem to match the uproar during the prequel releases.

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                        • Originally posted by ArcaneArts View Post
                          Kettle, meet pot.

                          I have not been rude to you in the slightest! I have merely voiced my dislike of the new trilogy!


                          Originally posted by nofather View Post


                          Well, the toys sold worse this year is an objective fact. 'Star Wars is a dying franchise,' is more an ambiguous statement. People who want to blame minorities and women seem to be loud about how bad it is, but it doesn't seem to match the uproar during the prequel releases.
                          Okay, first of all, people are not pissed off about the main character being female. Fans have wanted to see Leia awaken her Jedi potential for years. They even had a DLC for Force Unleashed in which Leia becomes a Jedi after you kill Luke during a Dark Side scenario.

                          They are pissed off because of HOW she is handled as a female character. I am sorry, but making her a generic, random ass citizen hot off the streets who can just pick up a light saber and become a highly skilled Jedi over the however brief a training course Luke gave her in the second movie is NOT a good move.

                          Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the entire point behind Yoda's teachings about how the Force takes years of patience, discipline and study to master? Yet she picks it up like it's nothing? If Rey's story was set at any point before A New Hope, you know that the Jedi Council would have been swearing up and down that she was on the fast track to the Dark Side!


                          It's exactly because of his astonishing potential that they initially refused to train Aniken when he was a boy. And its exactly because of his astonishing potential that Aniken fell prey to arrogance and habitually violated the Jedi code, thus leading to his slide to Darth Vader.
                          Last edited by Nyrufa; 07-17-2018, 02:04 PM.

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                          • Originally posted by Nyrufa View Post


                            I have not been rude to you in the slightest! I have merely voiced my dislike of the new trilogy!
                            No, not to me.

                            The rest of the thread?

                            ...

                            ...

                            ...

                            Well, anyways, I'm done.


                            Sean K.I.W./Kelly R.A. Steele, Freelance Writer(Feel free to call me Sean, Kelly, Arcane, or Arc)
                            The world is not beautiful, therefore it is.-Keiichi Sigsawa, Kino's Journey
                            Male/neutral pronouns accepted, female pronouns enjoyed.
                            Currently Working On: The Noble and the Sovereign, Blog

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                            • Originally posted by Nyrufa View Post
                              I have not been rude to you in the slightest!
                              Nah, just to everybody in general.

                              ​"I've been told this term is against the rules to use as a pejorative, so I'm not going to say it. Instead I'm going to say the term, and that I know full well it's against the rules to use it the way I want to use it, and that I would say it if only I'd not been told not to."

                              Originally posted by Nyrufa View Post
                              Okay, first of all, people are not pissed off about the main character being female.
                              They may not say they are, but these bipedal feathered waterfowl sure are quacking.

                              Originally posted by Nyrufa View Post
                              They are pissed off because of HOW she is handled as a female character. I am sorry, but making her a generic, random ass citizen hot off the streets who can just pick up a light saber and become a highly skilled Jedi over the however brief a training course Luke gave her in the second movie is NOT a good move.
                              You still haven't addressed why this is so terrible when Rey does it, but is okay for Luke. Because that's absolutely what happened with Luke.
                              Last edited by TheCountAlucard; 07-17-2018, 02:12 PM.

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                              • Originally posted by Nyrufa View Post
                                I have not been rude to you in the slightest! I have merely voiced my dislike of the new trilogy!
                                ...Nyrufa, you don't have a leg to stand on if you haven't even seen one of the movies yourself and are only going by the opinions and reviews of others, out of context.

                                So no.
                                Last edited by tasti man LH; 07-17-2018, 02:03 PM.

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