Star Wars: The Last Jedi

[BigDamnHero]

Its almost like who a character’s parents are doesn’t really matter.

I think it's interesting how I didn't notice this change. I'd been practically swimming in Star Wars since I was like...8, and with all of the Force Sensitives running around in the Legends material I just sort of took for granted that the Skywalkers weren't the most important family in the galaxy.

I'm really glad that The Last Jedi made sure that everybody knows that now.

[ArcaneArts]

I think it's interesting how I didn't notice this change. I'd been practically swimming in Star Wars since I was like...8, and with all of the Force Sensitives running around in the Legends material I just sort of took for granted that the Skywalkers weren't the most important family in the galaxy.

I'm really glad that The Last Jedi made sure that everybody knows that now.

Leading up to the release of TLJ, one of the more convincing arguments I heard for Rey being a Palpatine was the notion that Star Wars is the story of the Skywalkers and the Palpatines.

And then it blew up and I was happier for it.

[Charlaquin]

That, right there is my complaint about the new Star Wars movies in a nutshell. There's no coherent vision and no sense of direction. Abrams made a movie, set up a lot of interesting ideas, and then Johnson came along and ignored those ideas or turned them on their head. His goal was to make his own movie rather than a movie that built on what Abrams had written. And Johnson has admitted he has no clue what Abrams will do in the next movie, if Abrams will keep to Johnson's vision or go back to his own vision from TFA. Heck, maybe Abrams really liked Snoke and will have him reappear with robot legs! (I hope not but it's possible)

When making a trilogy of movies it's vitally important to have a coherent vision and a set storyline. Making individual movies, by different directors with different visions and goals is going to end up with the movies in the trilogy feeling very different and off from one another which is not a good thing.

I don’t disagree. But I maintain that all critiques about mysteries Abrams set up and Johnson didn’t answer are Abrams’ fault. He knew he wasn’t going to write or direct 8. If he didn’t want his mystery box opened by someone else, he shouldn’t have left it unopened at the end of his movie. It was a serious dick move to set up the expectations he did with TFA and then tell Johnson it was his problem to deal with, and I don’t blame Johnson for not wanting to waste his movie finishing Abrams’ story. It would have been smarter of Disney to come up with a plan for the whole trillogy, but I’m not going to fault TLJ for the sins of TFA.

[Charlaquin]

Or at least, doesn't have to.

Yes. Good clarification, thank you.

[Charlaquin]

I think it's interesting how I didn't notice this change. I'd been practically swimming in Star Wars since I was like...8, and with all of the Force Sensitives running around in the Legends material I just sort of took for granted that the Skywalkers weren't the most important family in the galaxy.

I'm really glad that The Last Jedi made sure that everybody knows that now.

I don’t think this was really a change. The only reason Rey’s lineage became an issue in the first place was because TFA made a point of telling us her lineage was important at every opportunity.

[tasti man LH]

You can, contrary to popular belief, know you won't like a film without seeing it

No you can't.

While you may have a stable of reviewers and analyzers that you implicitly trust and whose opinions may jive with yours...it's still not your opinion. Even if their views match up 99.99% with theirs...there's still that .01%.

Because the other guys are not you. They do not actually have your exact same opinion.

Nothing even as big as disagreeing with their point, but something as minor as feeling one of the listed pros and cons to be a degree bigger or smaller then how you feel. That ultimately, no one else is going to have the exact same opinion you are, especially if you're forming your opinion off of others.

For instance, when Ghostbusters 2016 debuted (I refuse to call it Ghostbusters: Answer the Call) a lot of reviewers and people I trusted said that it was a decent movie. So I had decided to take their word and went to see the movie myself...and it turned out to be one of the worst movies that I had seen of 2016. I'm not going into detail right now as to why...but rest assured, no, it has nothing to do with the main cast being all-female.

Similarly, when I popped down to see Kubo and the Two Strings, after hearing all the applause on it being one of Laika's best...I came away from the theater feeling incredibly "meh".

So no. Reviews, analytical pieces, and film essays, are still formed from someone else's opinions that aren't yours.

Plus, refusing to see a movie in respect to your personal opinion is completely different versus actively engaging in conversation with others about the movie as if you've already seen it are two completely different things that I'd wish people would disclose more often.

I don't have to see the whole movie when I stop caring about whether or not information is classified as a spoiler.

Why does the information being a spoiler matter?

[nofather]

I thought showing the enslaved pro-rebel kids on the casino planet was a little thing that went a long way. Throughout most of the series you see most things from the views of the rebels versus the empire or first order, and the other thing in the prequel, and the 'outsiders' are just like, Jabba and Ewoks, who would probably be in the same place no matter who was in charge. So nice to see some real people who would be invested in the rebels winning and wouldn't see it as just the same shit, different boss.

Also I figure since his torso and head were all melted, and he wears a big helmet, he probably isn't the best at hearing so might not be able to make out differences between Darth and Darf.

[TheCountAlucard]

I don’t disagree. But I maintain that all critiques about mysteries Abrams set up and Johnson didn’t answer are Abrams’ fault. He knew he wasn’t going to write or direct 8. If he didn’t want his mystery box opened by someone else, he shouldn’t have left it unopened at the end of his movie. It was a serious dick move to set up the expectations he did with TFA and then tell Johnson it was his problem to deal with, and I don’t blame Johnson for not wanting to waste his movie finishing Abrams’ story. It would have been smarter of Disney to come up with a plan for the whole trillogy, but I’m not going to fault TLJ for the sins of TFA.

One time a friend of mine was running a disastrous D&D campaign. It was fuckin' horrible. Literally so bad that all his players unanimously came to me and asked me to run the game instead. They liked the characters they'd made too much to just drop the game altogether, but his intolerable GMing style just plain could not be further countenanced.

Fun was had in the resulting game, but it definitely wasn't the greatest one I'd ever run.

So yeah, from my own experience, I wouldn't blame Johnson, either.

[Grimmi05]

Lucas was the core writer and when he was writing out Episode 4, he had an idea of what was going to happen in Episode 5 and . Based on the interviews with Johnson and Abrams that does not seem to be the case at all with the new trilogy. Instead each director has just made a singular movie and the subsequent director can take what he wants to leave it, which is where we get weird things like Snoke.

And yeah, as of right now I think the prequel trilogy is better overall than Episode 7 and 8 have been. Of course there's always the chance that Episode 9 could be amazing, though that would likely require Abrams to go back and change up some of the stuff that Johnson decided to do in Episode 8.

I agree. Its all the dropped plot hooks that really ruined The Last Jedi for me. who are Rey's parents? drunken space bums despite everyone acting like her parents are Important in TFA. Who is Snoke and where did he come from? doesn't matter he dead. Why did Luke hide a map for people to find? Mistake he actully never wanted to come back in the first place. There is barely any plot cohesion at all between the two movies.

[Charlaquin]

Eh, I gotta agree with Arc. I didn’t need to see any of the 50 shades of grey movies to know I wouldn’t like them, and I don’t think Nyrufa seeing TLJ would change their opinion of it.

[BigDamnHero]

I agree. Its all the dropped plot hooks that really ruined The Last Jedi for me. who are Rey's parents? drunken space bums despite everyone acting like her parents are Important in TFA. Who is Snoke and where did he come from? doesn't matter he dead. Why did Luke hide a map for people to find? Mistake he actully never wanted to come back in the first place. There is barely any plot cohesion at all between the two movies.

TFA never made it sound like Luke intentionally left a trail of crumbs for people to find him.

Also, Rey's parents were important: to Rey. Her accepting that they were deadbeats and moving on was a big part of her character development.

[tasti man LH]

Eh, I gotta agree with Arc. I didn’t need to see any of the 50 shades of grey movies to know I wouldn’t like them, and I don’t think Nyrufa seeing TLJ would change their opinion of it.

Once again, there's a difference between not wanting to view a story out off deciding it's not to your personal tastes, versus actively engaging in discussion and delivering your views as if you have seen it it's entirety and assuming that's enough.

[TheCountAlucard]

Eh, I gotta agree with Arc. I didn’t need to see any of the 50 shades of grey movies to know I wouldn’t like them, and I don’t think Nyrufa seeing TLJ would change their opinion of it.

I don't think it's so much a matter of needing to see it to decide whether or not you'd like it, so much as needing to see it before deciding to spend multiple pages on a discussion forum debating the finer points of why it is or isn't good.

After all, movie critics generally bother to see the movie before writing up their think-pieces, right?

[AnubisXy]

I don’t disagree. But I maintain that all critiques about mysteries Abrams set up and Johnson didn’t answer are Abrams’ fault. He knew he wasn’t going to write or direct 8. If he didn’t want his mystery box opened by someone else, he shouldn’t have left it unopened at the end of his movie. It was a serious dick move to set up the expectations he did with TFA and then tell Johnson it was his problem to deal with, and I don’t blame Johnson for not wanting to waste his movie finishing Abrams’ story. It would have been smarter of Disney to come up with a plan for the whole trillogy, but I’m not going to fault TLJ for the sins of TFA.

If Johnson didn't want to make a movie building on what Abrams had written then he shouldn't have agreed to film a sequel to Abram's movie. I mean, it was the first movie in a trilogy - of course Abrams was going to drop plot hooks and interesting things that would get explored in the later movies. That's the kind of thing you're supposed to do in a trilogy is set up plot threads that will be woven through the three movies.

Basically if Johnson didn't want to make a sequel then he should have let another director who was interested in making a sequel make the movie.

[Grimmi05]

TFA never made it sound like Luke intentionally left a trail of crumbs for people to find him.

Also, Rey's parents were important: to Rey. Her accepting that they were deadbeats and moving on was a big part of her character development.

Ok. I am the hero of the universe. I am going to leave for a planet to live a hermit life and I don't want anyone to find me. to prepare I A) I disappear leaving no trace about where I could be or if I am even alive or B) give half of a map to a loyal retainer that my sister knows and put the other half with my R2 unit that only activates when in he other half is brought in contact with it?

Also the every time Rey's parents are mentioned everyone in the movie acts like its a big secret about who they are. Prime example when Rey is talking to Han about how she was left on Jakku he gets this look on his face like he knows who they are and doesn't want to tell Rey about it.