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Art, Criticism and Freedom. (Contains Disturbing Topics, Please Be Aware)

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  • Art, Criticism and Freedom. (Contains Disturbing Topics, Please Be Aware)

    double thread.
    Last edited by TGUEIROS; 06-06-2018, 12:00 PM.

  • #2
    I second you wholeartedly, tgueiros.
    There is no crime in saying anything, and that by no means the message can't be disturbing or terrifying.


    • #3
      All right then.

      Originally posted by TGUEIROS View Post
      I do Isator, I find it abhorrent. Never watched it, and probably never will.

      I would if I studied film history, or race relations, or something that made the discomfort worth it. But I don't.
      I feel as though this is taking my point kind of literally, rather than considering the substance of what I was saying.

      ​Sure, those things are valid to the question of how The Birth of a Nation is watched now, close to a hundred years after its cinematic release, at a point in time when even bigots probably need to go very far out of their way to watch it, and perhaps find more contemporary material if they wish to do so.

      ​The point I was making was based on a consideration of how to perceive and criticise it as though it was new, in which the statement "if you don't like it, don't watch it" is kind of inadequate when it's something that was both contributing to a popular narrative that marginalized and oppressed a large section of the American population, and was so empowering to bigots that it sparked the revival of an actual terrorist organisation.

      ​To be sure, it's not a point that is never valid. I personally don't care much for Doctor Who, haven't watched it in years, and would, as of now, be trying to not go out of my way to speak critically of it in a conversation that had nothing to do with it, or at least was not soliciting people's opinions on the subject. Doctor Who is a product in which my dislike for it and everything that stems from therein is purely a matter of personal taste, and thus it's a lot easier on myself and anybody that I might talk to if I simply devote no attention to it at all, rather than exist in a perverse state of actively and vocally disliking it.

      ​On the other hand, I would be fairly critical of a show such as, say, Entourage, with its portrayal of that kind of Hollywood bro culture, particularly as it pertains to comparatively recent revelations about Hollywood and its attitude towards women. Where I would propose that the Harvey Weinsteins of the world readily disappeared into the midst of that society and its general background noise of low-level misogyny, such that I would have harsh words against a show that seemed to celebrate it.

      ​Something that I think has significance to our own particular subculture.

      ​I like fantasy fiction. I like women. I would like fantasy fiction to continue making improvements with regards to representations of women, and making them feel as though they're a welcome and valued part of the subculture.

      ​So I think that it's fair to continue being critical of a disproportionate amount of fantasy fiction that continues to represent women in ways that have issues.

      Originally posted by TGUEIROS
      You know there are recent films with absolutely insane and vicious, violence (sexual and otherwise), even against children, created and presented this year in renowned festivals, to critical acclaim, right?
      What kinds of films are those?

      ​Like, I've seen bits and pieces of The Birth of a Nation, and I've seen the entirety of 12 Years a Slave, and both films feature southern American white people doing very unpleasant things to black people, and yet the films are not equivalent in their framing and priorities and what they intend the audience to take away from it.

      ​So are you talking about films that seem to be trying to empower the actual people who are assaulting children? Or what, what's going on, what is the context?

      Originally posted by TGUEIROS
      But I would not argue against someone's right to produce it.
      ​Honestly, I think this is a bit of a false flag. I don't believe that anybody in the last couple of pages of that thread was saying anything to the effect of somebody not having a right to produce something, or calling for some kind of boycott, or any of the other usual arguments. Hell, as I recall, the person actually said that they liked the art style, and was just critical of it for still having that standard of depicting women.

      Originally posted by TGUEIROS
      The cost and risk of total censorship is just too impossibly high for me to even contemplate.
      ​Nobody has talked about total censorship until right here. It's a false dichotomy, and a scare tactic.

      I have approximate knowledge of many things.
      Write up as I play Xenoblade Chronicles.


      • #4
        Originally posted by Synapse View Post
        There is no crime in saying anything, and that by no means the message can't be disturbing or terrifying.
        There are more metrics for good conduct and things that are beneficial to society than never doing anything that is actively criminalised.

        ​I wouldn't have ever gone to prison for constantly belittling and undermining my younger sister and disrespecting my mother, but at a certain point those stopped being things that I wanted to do, and I endeavoured to actively curate any cultural influence that tried to make me perceive acting in that manner as normal or empowering.

        And I'll be critical of them just to contribute to the conversation about them in a manner that is contrary to them, in the hopes of being part of the collective influence that shifts away from them. Maybe even being somebody who expresses things that convinces somebody else as I was once so convinced. Certainly to help other people that are so critical, and have much more personal stakes in it, not feel alone.

        ​You get a conversation in which nobody is contrary to those things, and everybody in it starts feeling as though such ideas and images of certain kinds of people are the norm, are the default, and then they go out into the world and do things based on it. Some of which actually are criminal. Some of which are not, but can still cause deep hurts or destroy lives.

        I have approximate knowledge of many things.
        Write up as I play Xenoblade Chronicles.


        • #5
          This is a repeat but... I covered that in the other..other thread >.> Sorry for the confusion.