Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Onyx Path, Timetables, and Crowdfunding

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Onyx Path, Timetables, and Crowdfunding

    I haven’t been around here much, but recently checked back in on some prior projects, to see where they’ve been in my time away from these games... and now, I really want to try and have an honest conversation.

    Wraith20 crowdfunded over four years ago now, and the one additional supplement unlocked through that campaign still isn’t out. Dark Eras 2 is rapidly approaching three years since successfully crowdfunding, and still isn’t released. Scion 2e successfully funded two and a half years ago, and the corebook just finished up, with the supplemental material still in the distant future.

    Just as a handy little reference point, 11 projects have successfully crowdfunded since Dark Eras 2. 22 have funded since Wraith20.

    The most recent Monday Meeting Notes lists 54 projects in various stages of development, and I know there are stretch goals from several finished crowdfunding campaigns that aren’t on there yet.

    This degree of backlog is a little absurd. It’s hard to back crowdfunding efforts when there’s still content owed from two, three, four years ago. 50+ projects somewhere in the development pipeline is a lot to juggle, and while I know talent isn’t shared across all of them, I know some key people can’t be everywhere at once, and that leads to errors and delays; Signs of Sorcery has now passed four years since being announced, for instance.

    New stuff is exciting! Kickstarters are a lot of fun! It’s really fun to be aboard the hype train for a new edition of your favorite game... less so when there’s two other new editions and one new game ahead of it in the pipeline just when we look at CofD alone, and not considering everything Scion and Trinity and WoD and Pugmire and other projects also out there. Onyx Path is still pretty solidly on the indie side of things, so having this sort of roadmap ahead is daunting, as a fan. If nothing new was announced going forward, it would still likely take years for everything that’s already been paid for by Kickstarter backers, before factoring in other current, non-crowdfunded projects.

    How did we get here? How do we have stuff on the books from 2016 not out yet? How do we get excited for new projects when those are still owed, and how can we expect any sort of timely release cycle for everything in the MMN?

    Curious to hear opinions from fans and folks involved both on this.


    Call me Remi. Female pronouns for me, please.

  • #2
    Well, part of what you're asking is out and around.

    Over a month ago this thread was made and during it, it was revealed about the nature of Beast: the Primordial's rushed development...and that as a response, now OPP is deliberately taking their time on other future projects to make sure everything is done correctly. The specific example given is regarding the upcoming Deviant: the Renegades...and that yes, it IS a deliberate choice that that game is taking its time, that every bit of text is (apparently) getting double and triple-checked before being sent off to the next production stage. And hence why not a single peep about Deviant's Kickstarter.

    That now, OPP would rather take as much time as needed to make the best product they can, instead of rushing it out to meet deadlines.

    Comment


    • #3
      We also had Scion 2E Errata problems - there seemed much less than shown in the end, but it marked even more cautious approach to publishing new books by OPP. Like new erratas on Google Form is exactly response to it.

      ( Read the topic from start to see worries of fans. And then this was end result of the problem, that was miniscular to the worries putted on dev team by community - me included. )
      Last edited by wyrdhamster; 05-03-2019, 04:02 AM.


      My stuff for Scion 2E, CoD Contagion, Dark Eras, VtR 2E, WtF 2E, MtAw 2E & BtP
      LGBT+ in CoD games

      Comment


      • #4
        The new policy of OPP for putting previews of Kickstarters for backers - de facto, beta of books funded - is also reducing tensions. It leads to at least playing correctly with beta of the books long before the final product.

        I may wait year or even two before final version of Geist 2E or They Came From Beneath the Sea - but at least I have material to run games with it, even without graphics and corrections of proper errata.

        Like we literally just ended Contagion Chronicle KS and I can at least now add the Contagion content to my ongoing games, not waiting for it to be finalized in two years (?).

        ( I still weeps that Signs of Sorcery that are needed part 2 of MtAw corebook are still waiting for it. )
        Last edited by wyrdhamster; 05-03-2019, 04:02 AM.


        My stuff for Scion 2E, CoD Contagion, Dark Eras, VtR 2E, WtF 2E, MtAw 2E & BtP
        LGBT+ in CoD games

        Comment


        • #5
          I don't know to what extent this explains it, but in conversation with a long time WW author, they mentioned that every change they wish to submit goes through five levels of review at WW and that review can be time consuming. Some errors were purposefully left in a recent Mage book because fixing them would have required likely a month to go through a revision cycle for something almost a press.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by PhillyCuriosity View Post
            I don't know to what extent this explains it, but in conversation with a long time WW author, they mentioned that every change they wish to submit goes through five levels of review at WW and that review can be time consuming. Some errors were purposefully left in a recent Mage book because fixing them would have required likely a month to go through a revision cycle for something almost a press.
            No, that’s not an accurate description of our review process. Writers, and developers as well, do not have direct working relationships with WW or any of our licensors, and so tend to make assumptions.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by tasti man LH View Post
              Well, part of what you're asking is out and around.

              Over a month ago http://forum.theonyxpath.com/forum/main-category/main-forum/the-new-world-of-darkness/beast-the-primordial-aa/1299506-on-the-problematic-nature-of-beast-and-why-i-think-that-s-a-good-thing"]this thread was made [/URL]and during it, it was revealed about the nature of Beast: the Primordial's rushed development...and that as a response, now OPP is deliberately taking their time on other future projects to make sure everything is done correctly. The specific example given is regarding the upcoming Deviant: the Renegades...and that yes, it IS a deliberate choice that that game is taking its time, that every bit of text is (apparently) getting double and triple-checked before being sent off to the next production stage. And hence why not a single peep about Deviant's Kickstarter.

              That now, OPP would rather take as much time as needed to make the best product they can, instead of rushing it out to meet deadlines.
              The issues with Beast were not caused by an external rush to completion. Many of the assertions in those threads are erroneous, based on the ideas of folks that were not privy to what went on, or who have a long history of distorting situations in order to grind their mega-huge axes. For example, McFarland was never ordered to change Beast during the KS, he volunteered - exactly as was stated to backers at the time - based on conversations he, Rose, and myself had on why the text was coming off wildly away from our intentions.

              Comment


              • #8
                In response to the OP, since you haven’t been around lately, I’m going to go ahead and fill in a little of recent events here at Onyx Path for you. Yes, there were a few remaining KS projects we were looking at being later than their estimates on Kickstarter. Wraith20 and Scion 2e were, in fact, the last of their kind - KSs that we ran without completed text being in hand first.

                We have moved away from that model except in very specific cases, which Dark Eras 2 is a perfect example of. For DE2 we told backers and prospective backers that the project was not yet written, in fact couldn’t be written until the KS was over because of the nature of the project was that it was being created during the KS, and so the delivery estimate was pretty much useless.

                So while C20, Wraith20, and now Scion 2e ran later than estimated and so only have shipped recently, our more recent KS projects have been getting to backers months, and in one case about a year, earlier than estimated. A large part of that is simply the afore-mentioned policy of getting the text completed before starting the KS, but another factor has been the efforts of our three in-house developers in working with our project developers to assist them with any problems with their projects. Another has been a change in the concept any single person “ruling” a game line to multi-member dev teams - a concept we could not get traction with until our in-house devs were in place to make it happen.

                None of this is to say that we’ll never run late on a KS project ever again, because shit happens, but that we have evolved how we do things in order to better deliver the projects without sacrificing our quality standards.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by RichT View Post
                  In response to the OP, since you haven’t been around lately, I’m going to go ahead and fill in a little of recent events here at Onyx Path for you. Yes, there were a few remaining KS projects we were looking at being later than their estimates on Kickstarter. Wraith20 and Scion 2e were, in fact, the last of their kind - KSs that we ran without completed text being in hand first.

                  We have moved away from that model except in very specific cases, which Dark Eras 2 is a perfect example of. For DE2 we told backers and prospective backers that the project was not yet written, in fact couldn’t be written until the KS was over because of the nature of the project was that it was being created during the KS, and so the delivery estimate was pretty much useless.

                  So while C20, Wraith20, and now Scion 2e ran later than estimated and so only have shipped recently, our more recent KS projects have been getting to backers months, and in one case about a year, earlier than estimated. A large part of that is simply the afore-mentioned policy of getting the text completed before starting the KS, but another factor has been the efforts of our three in-house developers in working with our project developers to assist them with any problems with their projects. Another has been a change in the concept any single person “ruling” a game line to multi-member dev teams - a concept we could not get traction with until our in-house devs were in place to make it happen.

                  None of this is to say that we’ll never run late on a KS project ever again, because shit happens, but that we have evolved how we do things in order to better deliver the projects without sacrificing our quality standards.

                  I have been critical over the Scion 2nd edition situation, but I want to fair. I like this post I’ve quoted. I like this evolution. It restores confidence. Thought you should hear it.

                  Comment

                  Working...
                  X