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Al-Qadim, Oriental Adventures and problems

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  • #31
    Originally posted by Dwight View Post
    That's some low effort content there, what's next a review of the Charlie Chan series?
    800 Twitch subscribers seem to disagree with you. Turns out there's an audience for dunking on old racist garbage.


    Remi. she/her. game designer.

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    • #32
      Originally posted by atamajakki View Post

      800 Twitch subscribers seem to disagree with you. Turns out there's an audience for dunking on old racist garbage.
      Oh, thank heavens, i thought this kind of nonsense would have been popular...

      Thats a fraction of the number i would have expected.

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      • #33
        Originally posted by atamajakki View Post

        800 Twitch subscribers seem to disagree with you. Turns out there's an audience for dunking on old racist garbage.
        Everyone loves a spectical


        You've been playing around the magic that is black
        But all the powerful magical mysteries never gave a single thing back

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        • #34
          Originally posted by GenerallyConfused View Post

          Oh, thank heavens, i thought this kind of nonsense would have been popular...

          Thats a fraction of the number i would have expected.
          That's $4000 a month. Not millionaires by any means, but more than I make with a day job.


          Remi. she/her. game designer.

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          • #35
            Originally posted by Dwight View Post
            That's some low effort content there, what's next a review of the Charlie Chan series?
            It's an obvious target but I admit, I kind of still want to watch it myself.

            I think part of my opinion on Al-Qadim and Kara-Tur is the fact that I think of them in the context of the way they were meant as much as the way they were done. Which is the fact that they were an attempt to get gamers to expand their horizons and visit other cultures in the setting. One of the earliest books on the Middle East I ever read was this:



            Now you may think this would be a train wreck but it blew my 12 year old mind because I had never before read that, "Oh my God, the Crusaders were the BAD GUYS?" The book going with the very Terry Jones-esque take on, "A bunch of barbarian Frenchmen looted a civilized culture while committing many war crimes along the way."

            Which was the big takeaway I got from the book. It and books like Al-Qadim helped humanize and expand on the non-European world presented. Obviously, it would be better if they did a new version to update the settings and give the perspectives of actual Asian and Muslim (or Arabic) gamers in the books. But I do admit to thinking that they were coming from a place of cosmpolitanism rather than xenophobia.

            I.e. "Isn't Arabic shit COOL?"

            Which is admittedly a weak defense and certainly not what should be shot for in 2020.

            But I admit, I'm a white Southern guy who had a positive experience with these books in the early Nineties.
            Last edited by CTPhipps; 07-31-2020, 06:02 AM.


            Author of Cthulhu Armageddon, I was a Teenage Weredeer, Straight Outta Fangton, Lucifer's Star, and the Supervillainy Saga.

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            • #36
              Originally posted by Grumpy RPG Reviews View Post
              They have started a reread of KotE - and it is more brutal than the other rereads.

              ...
              I, for one, liked this video, and want to watch the other ones in this larger "let's look at how western RPG supplements get Asian/Arabic culture wrong" series.


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              • #37
                It's sad the old White Wolf forums are gone because they did a similar by text one for ISLE OF THE MIGHTY by actual Londoners.

                Some rough, punkish, Goth Londoners dealing with the book that treats London as a land informed by My Fair Lady and Mary Poppins.

                That was F---ing Hilarious from beginning to end.

                Like that episode of Total Divas where Paige goes with the Bellas to see London and they want to attend tea houses as well as visit the Queen.



                The closest thing I can think of is the wonderful RPG.net thread where a guy tears into LONDON BY NIGHT for the Victorian Age: https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?thre...-night.733239/
                Last edited by CTPhipps; 07-31-2020, 08:38 AM.


                Author of Cthulhu Armageddon, I was a Teenage Weredeer, Straight Outta Fangton, Lucifer's Star, and the Supervillainy Saga.

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by CTPhipps View Post
                  But I do admit to thinking that they were coming from a place of cosmpolitanism rather than xenophobia.

                  I.e. "Isn't Arabic shit COOL?"
                  Part of a nuanced discussion on systemic issues is being able to recognise that something doesn't have to be malicious for it to still have issues, if it ends up simplifying or commodifying.

                  That's why I'm saying that a person who draws positively from a thing ought to pursue that feeling to expand, deepen and even be a bit open to being challenged on it.


                  I have approximate knowledge of many things.
                  Write up as I play Xenoblade Chronicles.

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Isator Levi View Post
                    Part of a nuanced discussion on systemic issues is being able to recognise that something doesn't have to be malicious for it to still have issues, if it ends up simplifying or commodifying.
                    This is true, but is poses a question; is it possible to give fictional representation to non-European regions (such as the Middle East and the Far East) without the bad out weighing the good? I don't think they can.

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Grumpy RPG Reviews View Post

                      This is true, but is poses a question; is it possible to give fictional representation to non-European regions (such as the Middle East and the Far East) without the bad out weighing the good? I don't think they can.
                      I disagree, Onyx Path has set several dark eras in both regions without any complaints. Conan's Hybora has several proto cultures done surprisingly respectfully given the creators feelings on race at the time.


                      You've been playing around the magic that is black
                      But all the powerful magical mysteries never gave a single thing back

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by Dwight View Post
                        I disagree, Onyx Path has set several dark eras in both regions without any complaints.
                        The team doing the rereads just hasn't gotten around to the Dark Era's books yet.

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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by Grumpy RPG Reviews View Post

                          The team doing the rereads just hasn't gotten around to the Dark Era's books yet.
                          Still haven't heard a peep from usual crowd.


                          You've been playing around the magic that is black
                          But all the powerful magical mysteries never gave a single thing back

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by Dwight View Post

                            I disagree, Onyx Path has set several dark eras in both regions without any complaints. Conan's Hybora has several proto cultures done surprisingly respectfully given the creators feelings on race at the time.
                            Conan’s setting has evil swarthy Middle Easterners. Don’t give it too much credit.


                            Remi. she/her. game designer.

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                            • #44
                              Originally posted by atamajakki View Post

                              Conan’s setting has evil swarthy Middle Easterners. Don’t give it too much credit.
                              It also has evil gingers but apparently the Vanir are ok for reasons........


                              You've been playing around the magic that is black
                              But all the powerful magical mysteries never gave a single thing back

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by atamajakki View Post

                                Conan’s setting has evil swarthy Middle Easterners. Don’t give it too much credit.
                                Belonging to the Robert E. Howard Fanclub while fully aware of the two men, I've always found their problematic elements interesting to contrast. Doubly so given that we actually have all of their letters and the fact both of them discuss race. They're both white men in the 1920s and early 30s too so I don't make any suggestion they aren't (and Lovecraft was really-really racist).

                                One of the contrasts is that Robert E. Howard actually loved other cultures and was fascinated by history. He loved mixing and merging all the various Middle Eastern groups he'd read up on as well as inserting gods like Mitra (Mithras) and more into his writings. He thought that there was nothing particularly special about the white man and that eventually their boom period would pass like others. Lovecraft was HORRIFIED by this and even had fascist sympathies over it until Robert E. Howard once threatened to go to New England and beat him if he didn't drop them.

                                http://www.castaliahouse.com/robert-...e-third-reich/

                                [To HPL] “You say that Germany is not typical of Western civilization. Why not? Wherein is Germany less civilized than England? It see to be a characteristic among civilized people, that each advocate maintains that his is the only true civilization. I have heard an intellectual declare that Germany was the only truly civilized country in the world. You make out a logical, sensible and in many ways unanswerable case for English civilization; but the German, the Russian, the Italian, the Japanese each presents arguments in favor of his particular civilization just as logical, sensible, and unanswerable.”

                                “You accuse me of ‘hating human development’ because I mistrust Fascism. Well, there can’t be much tolerance about a system whose advocates denounce as ‘enemies of humanity’ anyone who disagrees with them. According to that, you consider as ‘enemies of humanity’ every man and woman in the world who is not a Fascist. I do not condemn the reforms you say would be possible under Fascism.”

                                “I simply do not believe they would exist under a Fascist government. Of course you can draw glowing pictures of a Fascist Utopia. But you can not prove that Fascism is anything but a sordid, retrogressive despotism, which crushes the individual liberty and strangles the intellectual life of every country it inflicts with its slimy presence…And Fascism is nothing but a new fad-name for industrial tyranny. It’s the final step of entrenched special privilege-holders, which would peon the people beneath them beyond all hope.”

                                “You say that the type of Fascism you advocate is without despotism and persecution of intellectual freedom; you might as well say you advocate a cobra without its venom, a skunk without its stench, or a leper without his scabs.”


                                It reminds me of Tolkien's letter to the Nazis.


                                Author of Cthulhu Armageddon, I was a Teenage Weredeer, Straight Outta Fangton, Lucifer's Star, and the Supervillainy Saga.

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