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  • Originally posted by ArcaneArts View Post
    Also, and I can't believe I'm going to ask this question, what's wrong with the harem genre?

    For once, Arcane Arts and I might be in agreement on something.

    What's wrong with the harem genre? It's just mindless entertainment fiction. If you don't like it, don't read it or watch it.

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    • Originally posted by Cielle View Post
      What fantasy/sci-fi series are you thinking of?
      No specific series. There's a whole bunch of them now. A search for harem on Amazon (under the Sci Fi and Fantasy genre) is turning up over 2000 results (though they tend towards series). Self publishing is great but it's such a creatively bankrupt genre and so desperate.

      And yes, it's mindless, and thoughtless entertainment. That isn't something people should be touting as a good thing. It's wish fulfillment at its most basic and pathetic level. 'I wish everyone would love me, and by everyone I mean sexy women of all ages.' And that's just the soft stuff. 'If I be nice to pretty girls, they'll have to be in love with me and do whatever I want' is a bad enough lesson. The rest is like 'I capture and train monsters for a living, and thought I'd be a bachelor forever. But then I remembered: Monstergirls.' Because the idea of grooming or abusing women into being your love slave is completely harmless and wholesome entertainment, right? We're literally dealing with situations on this very board where one person (Zak) used his wife to create and force a harem. That's what the reality of it is. It's not some cheerful guy who's just so nice everyone wants to sleep with him because fuck their own motivations. It's a manipulative asshole who thinks he should get whatever he wants (and yes, whatever, because there's no way this dude thinks of women as people on the level of himself), because fuck their agency.

      And I'm not reading it or watching it, but Amazon doesn't let you customize their genre searches very well. And this stuff is selling very well enough to pop up all the time. Because of course it would.

      Like comics and cartoons all you want. I do. Is this really the niche genre of them that you think should be defended?
      Last edited by nofather; 02-16-2019, 04:34 PM.

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      • Monstergirls is a very extreme example of harem fiction. You might as well condemn all literary erotica because of The 120 Days of Sodom being so fucked up.

        (Just so we're clear, I am NOT a fan of Monstergirls or 120 Days of Sodom)

        Not everything has to be tied to real life tragedies or otherwise be politicized, and not everything has to be socially conscious nor does everything have to be high art....you know what, I think I will stop there because I don't want to dig my grave any deeper than I already have.

        I'm sorry for even asking. Forget I said anything.

        You don't like the harem genre? That's cool by me. You do you.

        Don't mind me, I'm just going to be over in the corner drinking Jameson and playing Grand Theft Auto.
        Last edited by Camilla; 02-16-2019, 04:45 PM.

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        • You know, Camilla, since you announced your intention to stop posting political content, I have not seen any reduction in the amount of political posting you do at all. The only change I have observed is that now when you post something political, you in the same breath profess, “This is all I’m going to say on the matter, I shouldn’t even be saying it, forget I said it.” Then when someone tries to address the point you claim to want them to ignore, you shut the argument down, insisting that you aren’t interested in engaging with political topics.

          If I didn’t know any better, I’d say you do still want to make political statements, you just don’t want anyone to challenge them.


          Onyx Path Forum Moderator

          My mod voice is red. I use it so you know when I'm speaking in an official capacity, not as an indication of tone.

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          • Originally posted by ArcaneArts View Post
            Also, and I can't believe I'm going to ask this question, what's wrong with the harem genre?
            In the abstract nothing. In application, harem genre tropes and clichés usually combine into some pretty questionable content.

            The biggest issues are the inherent power dynamics involved in a narrative where a single central character has 3+ other characters so bound up in the central character that they are primarily defined in the story by their relationships to the central character rather than as individuals, as well as the harem characters being reduced to archetypes over characters to differentiate them (esp. in larger cast harems).

            A lot of creators in the harem genre don't give much thought to that, and thus if you look past the superficial fun of it, you find pretty squicky or off-putting stuff really, really, fast. It tends to be worse in aggregate as you see certain things crop up multiple times with the same creator.


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            • Originally posted by Charlaquin View Post
              You know, Camilla, since you announced your intention to stop posting political content, I have not seen any reduction in the amount of political posting you do at all. The only change I have observed is that now when you post something political, you in the same breath profess, “This is all I’m going to say on the matter, I shouldn’t even be saying it, forget I said it.” Then when someone tries to address the point you claim to want them to ignore, you shut the argument down, insisting that you aren’t interested in engaging with political topics.

              If I didn’t know any better, I’d say you do still want to make political statements, you just don’t want anyone to challenge them.

              Sorry, I've really wanted to avoid political content, but the recent drama regarding several incidents in our hobby (the whole thing with Zak and his heinous behavior being the big one), I've gotten real pissed and upset about a lot of things and sadly, my mouth writes checks my ass can't cash.

              TL;DR I'm an idiot who's terrible at committing to things and prone to letting his emotions override his logic and I feel bad about all of this.

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              • Originally posted by Camilla View Post
                TL;DR I'm an idiot who's terrible at committing to things and prone to letting his emotions override his logic and I feel bad about all of this.
                A human being, in other words. This is why it was pretty predictable that you weren’t really going to stop posting any and all political content. You’re a human that lives in a world filled with other humans, which means you cannot avoid having to interact with other humans and navigate those interactions.


                Onyx Path Forum Moderator

                My mod voice is red. I use it so you know when I'm speaking in an official capacity, not as an indication of tone.

                Going by Willow now, or Wil for short. She/Her/Hers.

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                • Camilla, you've been warned about making these kinds of personal attacks in the past (specifically when you were slagging Martin at WW) and you've had numerous other warnings. This is the literal last one. 1 week off, next offense, no matter how minor, will get you a permanent suspension. Enough is enough, we were promised a change in behavior and haven't been seeing it.


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                  • Originally posted by Heavy Arms View Post

                    In the abstract nothing. In application, harem genre tropes and clichés usually combine into some pretty questionable content.

                    The biggest issues are the inherent power dynamics involved in a narrative where a single central character has 3+ other characters so bound up in the central character that they are primarily defined in the story by their relationships to the central character rather than as individuals, as well as the harem characters being reduced to archetypes over characters to differentiate them (esp. in larger cast harems).

                    A lot of creators in the harem genre don't give much thought to that, and thus if you look past the superficial fun of it, you find pretty squicky or off-putting stuff really, really, fast. It tends to be worse in aggregate as you see certain things crop up multiple times with the same creator.

                    Kind of familiar with that. I was wondering if there was anything else from Nof's point of view.


                    Sean K.I.W./Kelly R.A. Steele, Freelance Writer(Feel free to call me Sean, Kelly, Arcane, or Arc)
                    The world is not beautiful, therefore it is.-Keiichi Sigsawa, Kino's Journey
                    Male/neutral pronouns accepted, female pronouns enjoyed.
                    Out of Nation from 5/22 to 5/29

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                    • I feel robbed by JDate's Valentine's Day Theater Mingle. The Other Josh Cohen was hella depressing, no one showed up before the show to talk and I was the only one there both in my 20s and single. I think I thought it was a mingle and it was really a Date Night. But it was a sucky Valentine's Day.

                      I put myself out there to go to an event and talk with people and all I got for $45 plus round trip train fare and overpriced Manhattan food was depression (and embarrassment after I blurted out a minor heckle without thinking). I wonder why I bother


                      A god is just a monster you kneel to. - ArcaneArts, Quoting "Fall of Gods"

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                      • In general, I hate my swollen sense of empathy and the guilt both deserved and stupid it brings with it. Even more, I hate how I hide from it instead of try to help. But really, some days, I wish I was an independently wealthy aro-ace sociopath. It feels like caring about people only brings me pain but I can't stop caring.

                        I also have the weirdest thing to hate ever: I wish I had an external enemy in my personal life. I hate looking at my life and seeing that it's all either my fault or my broken brain's fault. Everyone I know is on my side and supporting me and I just keep disappointing them. Total grass is greener on the other side, but I keep thinking I would have more motivation if I had someone who hated me personally and had the power to hurt me. Someone to fight, someone to thrive in spite of. Instead, the only enemy I can point to is me, and I don't want to treat myself as the enemy.


                        A god is just a monster you kneel to. - ArcaneArts, Quoting "Fall of Gods"

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                        • Originally posted by Master Aquatosic View Post
                          I also have the weirdest thing to hate ever: I wish I had an external enemy in my personal life. I hate looking at my life and seeing that it's all either my fault or my broken brain's fault. Everyone I know is on my side and supporting me and I just keep disappointing them. Total grass is greener on the other side, but I keep thinking I would have more motivation if I had someone who hated me personally and had the power to hurt me. Someone to fight, someone to thrive in spite of. Instead, the only enemy I can point to is me, and I don't want to treat myself as the enemy.
                          Hear ya there.
                          Last edited by ArcaneArts; 02-17-2019, 01:27 PM.


                          Sean K.I.W./Kelly R.A. Steele, Freelance Writer(Feel free to call me Sean, Kelly, Arcane, or Arc)
                          The world is not beautiful, therefore it is.-Keiichi Sigsawa, Kino's Journey
                          Male/neutral pronouns accepted, female pronouns enjoyed.
                          Out of Nation from 5/22 to 5/29

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                          • I hate that it's looking like Jussie Smollet may have staged the racist/homophobic attack against himself. There are plenty of members of minorities who are subjected to terrible attacks every day, but when you have a high profile person like this staging an attack, it's going to mean that those people who suffer from real attacks will have a harder time getting the benefit of the doubt, which is the one of the things they need the most..

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                            • Broken pedestals are one hell of a thing, even if they've already been tarnished and you could not care less about their disappearance.

                              Though honestly I'm not sure if that's the real reason I'm mad in this specific case. Meh, the point still stands.


                              Cinder's Comprehensive Collection of Creations - Homebrew Hub

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                              • I hate that every person I admire seems to be either dead, being revealed to be some form of abuser or just totally ineffective at social change. In general, I hate the seemingly Exarch-coded (sarcasm) link between the power and ambition to change society and any number of vices

                                I hate that because of my trifecta, I have to basically pay a tax to a bunch of corporations to guard against mental breakdowns. I don't resent the pills or even my need for them most of the time. I resent that I basically have to pay extra (or at least my family does) to get something basic to so many other people: a day where I don't break down into tears because I can't remember how to train my dog. It's not that I can't afford them, I just hate that I have to pay for it.
                                Last edited by Master Aquatosic; 02-18-2019, 09:54 AM.


                                A god is just a monster you kneel to. - ArcaneArts, Quoting "Fall of Gods"

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