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  • Originally posted by Heavy Arms View Post
    We do, but considering how much we struggle implementing the one we have... it's unclear how to make one that isn't going to be full of poison pills and tainted wells.
    It's tricky, but doable.

    Again, this is the history behind most other constitutions, including the best ones. No one started this process with the people in power making a good work out of the goodness of their hearts. But the constitutional processes the,selves are complex, involved, and the process itself is what will make it or kill it.

    Drafting a new constitution doesn't mean the Legislative convening and working through it as if it was common law making. When it comes to it, it will be the work of many hands, in many places, and a long discussion by many actors. Unless the ones doing it have no real intention of creating a democracy, in which case it won't solve the pressure, either.

    Originally posted by Heavy Arms View Post
    A lot of Americans don't have much hope left in this regard.
    The cost of not going through the system is heftier than most people think.

    Completely overturning a system isn't just bloody, it is complex and lengthy, and you don't know what exactly will come in the other side. Will there even be a US in the end of it? It isn't an unreasonable outcome that if things come this far there will be a breaking in two or more countries, or even the complete end of the Federation and independence of each State.

    Originally posted by Heavy Arms View Post
    The thing about the filibuster is that it's a delay at best. It could work for a bit. But the math of our population is that it's going to continue to hand more and more power to low population states.
    That's for sure. The Electoral College, Gerrymandering and the lack of protections for the right to vote are far bigger problems.

    For a long time I questioned our laws of mandatory voting, but looking at the American case I noticed something: making vote into an obligation incidentally makes it harder to create unnecessary constraints.

    Our law isn't terrible. If you don't vote you just have to "justify", which means saying whatever was the reason you didn't went and paying a small fee (currently R$ 2,00). You can even have the fee dismissed if it was a good reason, otherwise anything goes. But that still means that anyone not voting will be noticed and leave behind relevant information on why.

    Originally posted by Heavy Arms View Post
    That's why we talk a lot about "dark money."
    Dark Money is a worldwide problem, I've seen similar complaints from many places and we have it too here.


    On to another note: I hate it that we get no notice when someone blocks us here. Trying to engage with someone's arguments for half a year before learning that it was pointless when they tell someone else that they blocked you feels terrible. I won't blame them, but I can't say it felt ok.


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    • Originally posted by monteparnas View Post
      It's tricky, but doable.
      Passing decent gun safety laws is simple and doable: the US did it, it was working, but then it was undone fairly easily as well, and now we're stuck with what we have.

      It's not just a theoretical thing. Practically discussing a new US constitution would involve taking lots of real knowable factors into account.. and none of them point to us being in any position to come out better for it, and without massive waves of violence. We had a chance to do this well, but that was 150 years ago right after our civil war; but the history of why Reconstruction failed is not one that points to us being able to head off a second civil war with a new document.

      Unless the ones doing it have no real intention of creating a democracy, in which case it won't solve the pressure, either.
      That is, effectively, the problem. We have no way of cutting those uninteresting in creating a better democracy out of the process of crafting a new constitution that doesn't involve violence. The only thing resembling a legal non-violent path towards this in the first place would require a 3/4 majority of the states (not the people) to ratify the new document. That's beyond "tricky" to resolve. If we could get that kind of political will behind things, so many of the problems we have would be fixed without all this anyway.

      The cost of not going through the system is heftier than most people think.
      I'm not so sure "most" applies to the US here. You have a scarily large amount of people that want it to go the bloody way because they think they have the force and the desire (not just willingness) to kill their politic opposite until length isn't an issue; they don't care if it burns, they feel if they don't get their way it should burn. And there's even more of us that are rightly horrified by how big that movement is.

      The Electoral College, Gerrymandering and the lack of protections for the right to vote are far bigger problems.
      They're bigger symptoms. The Senate is the root problem here. We can't fix these things while a minority of the population gets veto power in the Senate.

      We could pass laws that would make the Electoral College either matter like it was supposed to, or meaningless ceremony like it should be, if the Senate was ruled by democratic values. Voting rights bills died, repeatedly, in the Senate last year despite the provisions in them being democratically popular. Etc.

      The issues with the Senate might mean that the minority that controls it never obtain the power to pass the laws they want, but they can obtain the power to kill the laws they don't want. That's why abortion rights here are about to die.

      For a long time I questioned our laws of mandatory voting, but looking at the American case I noticed something: making vote into an obligation incidentally makes it harder to create unnecessary constraints.
      Agreed.

      Dark Money is a worldwide problem, I've seen similar complaints from many places and we have it too here.
      But in this specific case, it's why our lobbying laws are toothless. It's not that we don't have laws to prevent things, we just have other laws that let people with lots of money ignore the laws that are supposed to stop them.

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      • Let's avoid suggesting anyone in RL is falling in with Nazi rhetoric regarding free speech advocacy even if you strongly disagree there's any value to it.

        Or, better yet, move on from that subject.



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          • Interesting post Monteparnas.


            What in the name of Set is going on here?

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            • Originally posted by Lysander View Post
              Interesting post Monteparnas.
              Thank you. I have something else from him:


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              • It’s has been months and the Exalted forum is still broken TToTT
                I wonder if there are any plans to fix it…


                The no.1 fan of Demetheus. I also draw Exalted things and is looking for commission works ~

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                • The fascist coup in America marches on, the USSC doing it's part.


                  Not returning to the forums, just stopping in for a moment.

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                  • Originally posted by Jen View Post
                    It’s has been months and the Exalted forum is still broken TToTT
                    I wonder if there are any plans to fix it…
                    Probably not, currently this site is nearly impossible to do any major maintenance without a reasonably expensive revamp.

                    What's wrong around there?

                    Originally posted by TyrannicalRabbit View Post
                    The fascist coup in America marches on, the USSC doing it's part.
                    Not following it close, I woul like some detailed news, but in general it was bound to not do much from the moment they decided to wait, more than a year ago.


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                    • Originally posted by monteparnas View Post

                      Not following it close, I woul like some detailed news, but in general it was bound to not do much from the moment they decided to wait, more than a year ago.
                      They finally officially dropped Roe V. Wade and yesterday they struck down rules in multiple states requiring people who want a concealed carry permit to demonstrate an extraordinary need for protection. And with Roe V. Wade declared unconstitutional, a lot of other civil rights built on the back of its constitutional right to privacy are open season and Clarence Thomas, the most conservative and originalist Supreme Court Justice, has outright said he plans to go after them.


                      A god is just a monster you kneel to. - ArcaneArts, Quoting "Fall of Gods"

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                      • So.... this month in the 6-3 radical justice brigade's bad rulings:

                        Egbert vs. Boule: Reduced the the scope of "Bivens" cases (referring to the 1971 Bivens vs. Six Unknown Named Agents) which allow citizens to sue federal government actors that violate their civil rights in the real of law enforcement for damage done to their person or property. Bivens suits were already seen as niche and last-ditch, so they really didn't need to be constrained even more. So, it's now even harder to seek compensation for physical harm, or damage to property, caused by illegal federal law enforcement activity.

                        Garland vs. Gonzalez: District Courts can't hear immigration cases that involved class-wide relief. So migrants being held in illegal conditions can't seek a legal action as a group, they all have to file for individual relief in courts that are already overwhelmed, and of course these are people that need the most help navigating the law successfully.

                        Shoop vs. Twyford: (Technically 5-4, Gorsuch had a separate dissent on this one): Made it harder for prisoners facing the death penalty to find evidence to reduce or reverse their sentence because they apparently have to know if the evidence will matter before they can request it be investigated.

                        Carson vs. Makin: The court has ruled that Maine public funds used to provide assistance for students that have to travel outside of their home district for secondary education (so think small rural areas that can't afford to have public education for all their kids on their own, so those kids have to get buses to other places) that includes tuition assistance as long as the school is non-sectarian is illegal because it violates the 1st Amendment's protections. The law that's supposed to stop our government from establishing a state religion apparently mandates that we have to pay for students to get a religious education if their area is too poor to support a secular public school of its own.

                        Vega vs. Tekoh: This one is a bit overstated in negative reactions, but it's still horrible. This is another case where the SCOTUS has limited the ability for citizens to sue law enforcement for improper activities. While this didn't actually remove the rights granted in the Miranda case (aka when Americans talk about being read their rights), as violating those rights hasn't changed regarding what happens in a criminal trial, we can't sue the police for violating our Miranda rights even if those violates result in inappropriate legal consequences.

                        NYSRPA vs. Bruen: A New York state law that's been around for over a century was overturned for not respecting the historical context of federal law (yeah...). New York, and many other states, had a "proper-cause" requirement to obtain carry permits for firearms. Basically, you had to tell the state why you wanted to carry your guns around (esp. for concealed carry) beyond a general desire for self-defense.

                        Dobbs vs. Jackson Women's Health Organization: The big "the US is going to collapse" case everyone was dreading. Roe vs. Wade has officially been overturned and we no longer have a federal protection for the right to abortion in the US. Further, not limiting themselves to just abortion, the 6 theocratic assholes have explicitly said that this does call into question decades of case law based on the right to privacy. As such a huge number of civil rights are in jeopardy now including but not limited to: contraception, sex outside of marriage, non-vaginal sex, interracial marriage, gay marriage, make medical decisions solely between a patient (and legal guardians for minors) and doctors.

                        ----------

                        The basic take away? Rank hypocrisy. There's no judicial philosophy here, just expanding rights for people they like, and restricting rights for people they don't. Cops, guns, fetuses, and Christian private schools gained rights, while living people that aren't cops lost rights and are at increased risk of losing even more of them.

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                        • Originally posted by Heavy Arms View Post

                          The basic take away? Rank hypocrisy. There's no judicial philosophy here, just expanding rights for people they like, and restricting rights for people they don't. Cops, guns, fetuses, and Christian private schools gained rights, while living people that aren't cops lost rights and are at increased risk of losing even more of them.
                          If it were not obvious before, this latest batch of atrocities proves these backwards charlatans and intolerant autocrats CAN NOT BE REASONED WITH. They will continue to subvert and corrupt the rule of law for the sake of their outdated dogma until every last choice available to any American citizen is suppressed. Now it's only a question of how long this has to go on before America faces a second civil war to fully and utterly remove religion from matters of state.

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                          • I expect that the next time the Republicans control the House/Senate and the White House, that they will pass legislation banning abortion at the Federal level.

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                            • They don't even have to wait that long. Just like Justice Thomas laid out a list of cases to bring so they can roll back more rights, the radical extremist right will try to bring a fetal personhood case to the SCOTUS so the worst five of them (Roberts doesn't want it, but it doesn't matter) so the SCOTUS can affirm that fetal personhood is a constitutionally protected right, and outlawing the vast majority of abortions with that alone.

                              Though a Republican trifecta will still get it passed in the legislature as well.

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                              • This is all fucking crazy.


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