You Know What I Hate MK I

[atamajakki]

I hate to double-post, but I'd like to make something clear. I'm all for peaceful Antifa and I hate Nazis and Alt-Right types. I just don't like violence. I'm a pacifist and a center-left socialist.

If anyone is offended by my statements regarding Charlottesville, I do apologize sincerely. I'm just really upset that my brother got hurt (thank God it was only a broken nose), and I have a lot of complicated feelings about this.

You can hate violence all you want, but when a literal torch-wielding mob assembles and shouts slogans straight from the lips of those of murdered my great-grandparents, who would gladly see me and those I love removed by force... what is enough for you? How peacefully should I take the promises of repeated genocide against me?

I'm Jewish and queer. My partner is Romani and queer. Many people among that crowd and elsewhere in this country have made it quite clear that they want me dead. Am I supposed to defeat them with the smug self-satisfaction that they while they murdered me, at least I never dirtied myself with violence?

[Camilla]

You can hate violence all you want, but when a literal torch-wielding mob assembles and shouts slogans straight from the lips of those of murdered my great-grandparents, who would gladly see me and those I love removed by force... what is enough for you? How peacefully should I take the promises of repeated genocide against me?

I'm Jewish and queer. My partner is Romani and queer. Many people among that crowd and elsewhere in this country have made it quite clear that they want me dead. Am I supposed to defeat them with the smug self-satisfaction that they while they murdered me, at least I never dirtied myself with violence?

I'm sorry, okay. I understand sometimes we need to stand against evil and as a last resort, violence is acceptable. I'm just really upset about my brother being hurt, okay?

I'm going to take a couple days off from this forum to calm myself down.

[atamajakki]

I'm sorry, okay. I understand sometimes we need to stand against evil and as a last resort, violence is acceptable. I'm just really upset about my brother being hurt, okay?

I'm going to take a couple days off from this forum to calm myself down.

I'm sorry your brother got hurt, but I'm also glad he was fighting for a good cause.

Be safe out there.

[Camilla]

I'm sorry your brother got hurt, but I'm also glad he was fighting for a good cause.

Be safe out there.

I will, thank you.

[Manic Pixie Dreamcast]

Not to beat a dead horse or harp on anyone specifically, but I feel like I've seen a lot of takes on Charlottesville from all corners of the internet that approach it from the flawed perspective that this was just a case of antifa coming to brawl as a show of force, or directly in opposition to the Confederate statues. I've seen a few people share a post by a resident of the city that I thought was really enlightening so hopefully it's helpful to anyone still having trouble understanding why the response was so necessary.

From an actual resident of Charlottesville:

"There seems to be a perception from people outside of Charlottesville that what is going on here is two opposing groups coming to town and fighting some ideological battle that has gotten messy. That is not what is happening here. What is happening here is that several hate groups from the extreme right have come together under the "unite the right" banner here in our town and basically started acting as terrorists. This may seem like an exaggeration but it's not.

A church service was held over because they had surrounded the building and police had to disperse them. People had to be escorted to their cars. My friend was there with her daughter. Everywhere they meet, businesses close. We had drive by shootings yesterday from a van marked kkk.

A car plowed into a huge group of people. I'm sure you saw that on the newsfeeds. What you probably didn't see is that some of those people were on their way back from helping to repel a white supremacist march to predominately black housing development a few blocks away where they were attempting home invasions. I guess they were unfamiliar with the neighborhood. The residents repelled that one before antifa got there but there is some video of the alt-right folks getting run off on the daily progress twitter feed, if you're interested.

So, basically, what I'd like you to understand is, this IS NOT two side egging eachother on to unavoidable violence for more attention. This is one side of terrorists declaring that they can and will hold a town hostage (they've been saying it for over a month now, actually) and the town responding to that threat. The car that killed and injured people yesterday? Ohio tags. The medic tents (which treated both sides... turns out the alt right erst didn’t bring any medics. Guess they planned on doing all the injuring), water bottles, snacks, shade tents (all volunteer, donations, none shut down by police... all manned by that radical left you keep hearing about) yeah, we all live here. I saw a lot of people I knew yesterday, none of them were speaking for unite the right. None of them were escalating violence, most of them were offering some kind of aid and defending."

[AnubisXy]

Just out of curiosity, do you (or anyone else) happen to have a link to an article talking about the multiple drive-by shootings from a van with KKK markings? That seems like it would be a big thing, and my aunt had also heard about this over twitter, but we haven't been able to find any sort of official news report or police report corroborating it. She's trying to find out everything she can about what happened that day but sometimes separating the wheat from the chaff that comes in over social media is pretty hard.

[Manic Pixie Dreamcast]

I wasn't able to find anything with a quick search. I assumed it referred to an intimidation tactic (which plausibly wouldn't be reported to police or specifically covered by the news) and not any cases of people being shot but it might be worth contacting the poster about if you're comfortable using Facebook for that.

[nofather]

I haven't heard anything of the sort. It looks like there's been a lot of drive-by shootings but none seem to have a KKK-marked van.

[Kammerer]

Never, in the history of Nazism, has nonviolent protest done anything to stop them.

Like, I'm strongly anti-violence. I firmly believe it's an extreme measure that should only be resorted to in extreme circumstances. Nazis rallying is an extreme circumstance.

Violence against nazis was literally one of the key factors in the nazi success story. THE first step nazi party undertook under Goebbels was comming to communist and jewish communities and getting beaten up so that they can point fingers.

If injury has to be done to a man, it should be so severe that his vengeance needs not be feared.

The problem with nazis is that "threat of violence" or even "limited amount of violence" don't work against nazis, because they are absolutely willing to go through on their end and just kill everyone. Punching nazis doesn't stop them from being nazis, it gets them more entrenched and occasionally makes them look like the good guys. Killing nazis makes them dead, at which point it doesn't matter how good they look. If you want to fight nazis with violence, then your violence needs to be as good as their violence and you need to be ready to get into a car and plough through a crowd. Or you can stick to words and not let the nazis to power by convincing people that nazism doesn't work and its methods are abhorent.

[TyrannicalRabbit]

Violence against nazis was literally one of the key factors in the nazi success story. THE first step nazi party undertook under Goebbels was comming to communist and jewish communities and getting beaten up so that they can point fingers.


The problem with nazis is that "threat of violence" or even "limited amount of violence" don't work against nazis, because they are absolutely willing to go through on their end and just kill everyone. Punching nazis doesn't stop them from being nazis, it gets them more entrenched and occasionally makes them look like the good guys. Killing nazis makes them dead, at which point it doesn't matter how good they look. If you want to fight nazis with violence, then your violence needs to be as good as their violence and you need to be ready to get into a car and plough through a crowd. Or you can stick to words and not let the nazis to power by convincing people that nazism doesn't work and its methods are abhorent.

OR...or we can stop pretending like any serious or influential voices are calling for mass violence against Nazis across the States, let along State ordained mass violence against the Nazis, KKK, Alt-Right, Vanilla Isis,however you want to put it.

As long as the States have leaders who will subtly or overtly condone and support these people then the ugly truth is that events like Charlotte will happen again(the counter protester/supremacists fighting each other part) and people who are assembling to show their support of humanity, compassion,etc will be very likely put into a position to have to defend themselves. Until what I said at the beginning actually happens I cannot and will not simply speak a variation of "violence is bad!" because it's so often nothing but a whataboutism.

[AzraelFirestorm]

An Easy 4 Step Guide To Stopping Nazis:

Step 1: Kill all the Nazis.

Step 2: Have a nice meal. Killing all those Nazis probably worked up an appetite.

Step 3: Organize and give aid to those harmed by the Nazis, while educating those who might otherwise be swayed by Nazi rhetoric about the inhumanity of genocide and the failings of Nazism.

Step 4: Stay vigilant and ready to repeat Steps 1-3 in case of Nazi respawning.

[Fat Larry]

An Easy 4 Step Guide To Stopping Nazis:

Step 1: Kill all the Nazis.

Step 2: Have a nice meal. Killing all those Nazis probably worked up an appetite.

Step 3: Organize and give aid to those harmed by the Nazis, while educating those who might otherwise be swayed by Nazi rhetoric about the inhumanity of genocide and the failings of Nazism.

Step 4: Stay vigilant and ready to repeat Steps 1-3 in case of Nazi respawning.

This is pretty good. I like this guide

Ah, if only I had a few programmable HIT Marks to send after and eliminate any Nazi assholes in my home state.

[BurritoMage]

So lets just advocate genocide against people with a political ideology and that somehow makes us better then them again how?

[Sconce]

Calling for genocide of races and minorities isn't a "political ideology", friend. It's incitement. Y'know, one of those things that isn't protected by free speech laws? Legally speaking, it's an act of violence already. Thus, calling for the imprisonment or (while still something I'm admittedly a bit squeamish about) death in response isn't "genocide" (especially because they were not born hating everyone else), it's self-defense.
Or, put another way... let's not try to equate "defending one's right to live from those who actively want to take it away" with the """ideology""" of "kill or oppress everyone who differs from us and is lesser for it by virtue of aspects they were born with".

[Charlaquin]

So lets just advocate genocide against people with a political ideology and that somehow makes us better then them again how?

Nazi rationale for genocide: Our race is superior to all other races, and we must not allow our gene pool to be poisoned.

Rationale for killing nazis: Those people want to kill everyone who isn't of their race.

I find it rather disturbing that it is not immediately obvious to you why the latter is better.

EDIT: For the record, I don't actually think people should be killed for associating with the alt right. Like I said, I'm strongly anti-violence, to the point that I have mixed feelings about the death penalty. But, I do think that hate speech should be legally considered an incitement to violence, and I fully support people defending themselves against the threat of violence from literal nazis.