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  • Fallout New Vegas is not Bethesda's work. It was all Obsidian Entertainment.

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    • Originally posted by WHW View Post
      Fallout New Vegas is not Bethesda's work. It was all Obsidian Entertainment.
      Ah, yes. Thank you for your correction - it reinforces my thesis.


      On the frontier of the Wild South, there's only one woman with the grit to take on its most dangerous outlaws and bring them Back Alive, or Maybe Dead.

      Avatar by K.S. Brenowitz

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      • Torment: Tides of Numenera has a bisexual non romanceable companion whose arc and "heart" of personal story is about his gay romance, if anyone is interested.

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        • Originally posted by semicasual View Post
          Ah, yes. Thank you for your correction - it reinforces my thesis.
          Yeah, and Obsidian has always chosen to steer clear of any kind of romantic interaction in their games. Even some like Neverwinter 2 or KotOR 2, (sequels to Bioware games which often had romance) did not, themselves, feature romance in any way.

          In fact, back when KotOR 2 was coming out, they announced that there would be no romances (and the romantic aspect in the first KotOR had been a fairly big draw for a lot of people). Lots of people, understandably, got very upset about this and it turned into a huge thread on their forum with lots of people talking about boycotting the game for that reason.

          Several of the writers and owners of Obsidian (I seem to remember Chris Avellone and Keven Saunders) responded saying that while they knew romances were popular, they felt that they added too many problems to a game. People would just end up making people upset if one companion could be romanced and another couldn't be or, if a companion had a race/gender lock on their romance options forcing a player to play a character they might not want to play, or conversely, if companions had no race or gender locks on that could also cause issues (which was a somewhat prescient statement in light of Dragon Age 2).

          They also didn't like how romances played with party dynamics. They said with romances, it often meant that the romanceable companion would end up getting a deeper and more complex backstory, while non-romanceable characters often wouldn't get that treatment. Further, players would feel obligated to take the one or two characters that could be romanced along with them, which would mean less room in a party for other characters (this was especially an issue with KotOR 2 which only had two slots for companions).

          So they said they would rather give all of the characters equally deep character stories, and allow the player more freedom to choose companions, rather than feeling obligated to their token romanceable interest along with them in the party.

          This was not a popular decision, and at the time I figured Obsidian would quickly change their minds, but it's been 13 years since KotOR 2 came out, and Obsidian has still judiciously avoided including romance as an option in their games.

          They have made a few token strides to include LGBTQ characters in their games, which is still more than you usually see from RPG companies but still less than what you see from Bioware.

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          • Originally posted by WHW View Post
            Torment: Tides of Numenera has a bisexual non romanceable companion whose arc and "heart" of personal story is about his gay romance, if anyone is interested.

            Which character was it? I just ended up beating the game yesterday - my party had Erritus, Rhin and Matkina. I guess the gay character was Tybir?

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            • Kotor 2 had...vestigal remnants...of romance plots with Handmaiden, Disciple, Atton Rand and Visas Marr, though. But like rest of the game, they were a mess of unfinished and cut content. Like, you could actually see scenes where they fight over you due to jealousy and Atton had his whole...thing at end of the game.

              Yeah, Tybir is The Gay/The Bi [he feels more gay than bi; after beating the game I had a feeling that he is gay, but his opportunistic nature makes him use his natural charm to seduce women too, for profits and benefits]

              By the way, first Kotor had a lesbian only romance with Juhani.

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              • Originally posted by AnubisXy View Post
                Several of the writers and owners of Obsidian (I seem to remember Chris Avellone and Keven Saunders) responded saying that while they knew romances were popular, they felt that they added too many problems to a game. People would just end up making people upset if one companion could be romanced and another couldn't be or, if a companion had a race/gender lock on their romance options forcing a player to play a character they might not want to play, or conversely, if companions had no race or gender locks on that could also cause issues (which was a somewhat prescient statement in light of Dragon Age 2).
                I mean, they're right, though. Just a few posts ago atamajakki was explaining how this was contingent on whether they'd get the game or not.

                This was not a popular decision, and at the time I figured Obsidian would quickly change their minds, but it's been 13 years since KotOR 2 came out, and Obsidian has still judiciously avoided including romance as an option in their games.
                Honestly, the bad choice there was probably just making an announcement of it. I'm guessing atamajakki bought it, based on their spoiler, and did so hoping for a romance but possibly not getting one. From a sales viewpoint it's probably better to just be vague about it rather than definitively declare something consumers might want will not be available.

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                • The worst announcement I have seen recently was about Dangan Ronpa 3.
                  Game was heavily marketed as starring female protagonist, with putting the emphasis on FIRST TIME EVER IN THE MAIN SERIES, FEMALE PROTAGONIST, WOW WOW. It was a girl with a strong personality, much different from previous bland typical spineless male protagonists who heavily relied on Super Awesome Female Sidekick characters who really wanted to be protagonists but couldn't, because your typical japanese gamer wants to identify with spineless bland main character who grows a pair near the end of the story, if at all.
                  So Dangan Ronpa v3 having female protagonist was something new and exciting.
                  Too bad they killed the female protagonist for a shock twist in the first chapter [basically, the tutorial one] and you spend rest of the game playing Boring Spineless Unsure of Himself Male Protagonist Number 6456646

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                  • Those guys are really popular. It's weird, people used to like, or if not like, at least be inundated by, the bland protagonist who was macho and good at everything, now they go for the bland whiny protagonist who everyone loves and wants to help. I'm sure it reflects something.

                    This dovetails into comics, but there's been a lot of hate for the new Robin, Damian Wayne. Most of the complaints are about his attitude, but some of them are about his 'being good at everything.' But, thinking about it, all the Robins were ridiculously good at everything, they were just humble about it while Damian is cocky and self assured. And more than a little insulting.
                    Last edited by nofather; 03-17-2017, 03:35 PM.

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                    • There is that idea of typical reader doing a self insert into the story and sympathizing with the protagonists lack of power and agency [which is how they feel/felt during youth], being able to identify with them. Then you introduce a powerful female character who seems to be in charge and has ability to change, and due to whatever reason is forced to break the protagonist out of their pathetic shell and thrust them into life of adventure [which is pretty much a common fantasy and desire of splendid woman appearing in your life and not allowing you to back off into your tiny corner]. But then, a plot twist; she isn't all powerful, and you are not all useless. She is, in reality, emotionally fragile and without YOU, she will break apart and won't be able to go on. Suddenly, they are weak and need protection, and you need to step up to the challenge and discover that you were strong manly man all along, which is emphasized by showing that Super Strong Cool Girl is still girlish nothing in comparison to the heights you pushed yourself for her.
                      That's my pet theory about why this kind of protagonist is so popular recently, in a nutshell.

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                      • Huh. I had a few beers last night, and I guess I ended up pre-ordering Mass Effect: Andromeda. I remember looking a few things up about it after reading this thread, but I don't remember actually paying for it. But I got an email saying I ordered it, and I checked with my bank and it looks like I did buy it. I must have been pretty wasted. Fuck, I hope the next time I get wasted I don't accidentally end up ordering a Ferrari or something.

                        Well, now I'm not sure if I want to cancel my preorder or just end up getting it playing it.
                        Last edited by AnubisXy; 03-17-2017, 05:34 PM.

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                        • Originally posted by WHW View Post
                          That's my pet theory about why this kind of protagonist is so popular recently, in a nutshell.
                          No, that sounds about right. The main character was a chump, but thanks to the beautiful girl, who fell in love with him for who he was (even though he was a chump) he discovers he actually had special powers and was awesome all along and is only now realizing it. It makes it easy for the reader to 'self-insert' into the series. This seems to be a very common cliche that crops up really often in Japanese entertainment.

                          And to be fair it's not like it's a cliche that only appears with male protagonists. You often see this exact same cliche play out with female ones too - the female main character is an "ugly duckling" or Plain Jane type person with no outstanding special qualities, until the handsome male comes along and helps her realize that she was a swan all along.

                          Heck, I just started reading a Japanese Visual Novel yesterday called Shadows of Pygmalion. It's a yuri-focused visual novel (so it focuses on girl/girl romance), but it too seems to be following this same cliche, with the normal, average girl getting swept off her feet by other much richer, more beautiful and magically capable women and she's slowly learning that she was special the whole time, she just never realized it, though the story is much darker than I initially thought it would be.

                          Now, you certainly see this kind of cliche play out in western entertainment and fiction as well, but it seems like Japan in particular has been rather more obsessed with it for the last 15 years or so, and I'm not entirely sure why that is.
                          Last edited by AnubisXy; 03-17-2017, 05:44 PM.

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                          • My kingdom for a dating sim with interesting worldbuilding that wasn't anime and/or outright porn. I'd honestly love for Bioware's settings (done by someone better) to be used for a game entirely focused on the character interactions and unique ideas in them without the mediocre gameplay padding out the time between those moments.

                            I remember when The Last of Us came out, a friend of mine really enjoyed it, but said they wish they didn't have to play through fifteen minutes of bland cover shooter to get the next five minutes of the movie. It's a valid sentiment, but one that's currently financial suicide outside of the indie market.


                            Call me Regina or Lex.

                            Female pronouns for me, please.

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                            • Originally posted by atamajakki View Post
                              My kingdom for a dating sim with interesting worldbuilding that wasn't anime and/or outright porn. I'd honestly love for Bioware's settings (done by someone better) to be used for a game entirely focused on the character interactions and unique ideas in them without the mediocre gameplay padding out the time between those moments.
                              I would maybe recommend a game called VA-11 HALL-A if you haven't had a chance to check it out. It came out about a year ago and falls into the visual novel genre with some very basic gameplay elements. The main character is a bartender, and who works in a crappy bar in a futuristic cyberpunk city. The world building in the setting comes from the conversations you have with people who come into the bar to get drinks. Depending on what drinks you serve them, how much they like the drinks or how drunk they get them, you could end up having fairly different conversations and interactions with them.

                              You get a wide variety of different customers - robots, a girl who is livestreaming her entire life, talking dogs, cyborgs, police officers, news reporters, private detectives, etc. It definitely has some anime influences, but it's also got a lot of other, more western influences as well. It's not exactly a dating sim per se, but romance is the primary fulcrum of the story. The main character is a lesbian and has a a big crush on her boss, though she is still dealing with issues from her past relationship and trying to sort through those, and there's some flirting between her and several of the other customers.

                              I'm also a sucker for the artstyle. It's got kind of a retro pixel style and the sound track is mostly electronic, though some of the songs are pretty nice.



                              Honestly I'd have to say it's easily the best video game I've played in the last several years.

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                              • I heard it heavily influenced Read Only Memories, is that true? I kinda like ROM, but I'm getting tired of it.

                                EDIT
                                For "dating simesque" games, I recommend Persona series. It's pretty much anime, but character interaction is heavily focused on, to the point where you can safely say that game is 33 percent dungeon exploration, 33 percent character interaction stuff, and 33 percent story.

                                blob:http://imgur.com/c1cf5cec-1f6e-4d94-bf81-8be9059db7e7

                                EDIT 2
                                WHAT DO YOU MEAN THIS CAME OUT IN ENGLISH
                                http://store.steampowered.com/app/377530/
                                Last edited by WHW; 03-18-2017, 11:34 AM.

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