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  • Originally posted by tasti man LH View Post
    "...are you guys new to Godzilla? Are you not aware this is a thing in pretty much every single goddamn Godzilla movie ever?"
    Well, yes.

    I had seen one or two of the Japanese ones, and the Matthew Broderick one before this. That said, forcing an unwanted drama into another story (or action into a drama) isn't a new thing, or limited to Godzilla movies, but there are still movies that avoid it, or at least do it better.

    And like I said, and Second Chanced also opined, while I may have not liked that part of it but I still thought the rest of the movie was great
    Last edited by nofather; 07-28-2018, 03:33 AM.

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    • Originally posted by Second Chances View Post
      (Incidentally, I'm a chemistry teacher who has only watched half an episode of Breaking Bad and actively disliked Malcom in the Middle.
      I bring it up because a lot of the criticisms when it comes to the use of his character, to me come from people who are Cranston fans. And it's not lost to me that this was his first major role post-Breaking Bad, so I would only assume that people were looking forward to what he would do post-Walter White...and the reactions stem from disappointment.
      You're also jumping to conclusions. All I said was that Cranston's character was by far and away the most enjoyable human in 2014.
      ...and an entertaining, engaging character is meaningless if they don't have a good plot to engage in.
      If you want to keep the same basic structure, some rewriting needed to happen to build more organically. If he survives (which I would not have minded), the entire rest of the movie needs to be rewritten.
      That's the same conclusion I had. That you would have to rewrite the plot of the whole movie. As for what...I have no idea. Only two ideas that come to mind is a.) have a Science McGuffin like the OG Oxygen Destroyer be instrumental in eliminating the monsters or b.) have a human organization be behind the monsters and thus give an appropriate threat for the human characters to deal with. Problem is that a. is a little too boring and played out for a Godzilla movie. B has the issue of splitting away way too much time from the monsters. There aren't any easy solutions.

      And thus far, I haven't heard anyone offer any ideas for rewrites for what they could have done.

      Also, MUTOs? Still a better love story than Twilight.
      ...man I am so done with Twilight jokes...

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      • Originally posted by nofather View Post
        Well, yes.

        I had seen one or two of the Japanese ones, and the Matthew Broderick one before this. That said, forcing an unwanted drama into another story (or action into a drama) isn't a new thing, or limited to Godzilla movies, but there are still movies that avoid it, or at least do it better.
        ...well that explains that then.

        Before Godzilla 2014 I sat down and watched through the entire Godzilla filmography. And as said, much of the issues of Godzilla 2014, including that of the human characters, was stuff that almost all of the Godzilla movies have had to deal with. Which is why I wasn't fazed when they popped up in Godzilla 2014...and was confused at the sheer amount of people who did seem to be surprised at this particular flaw.

        It's why I ended up deciding that, whenever an entry from a long running legacy franchise like Godzilla debuts, I binge through all of the previous entries. [EDIT: That doing so lets me see the entry in the context of the previous movies, not just as it's own self-contained entry. Since I believe it's important to take both into account.] The other time being binging through James Bond movies in preparation for Spectre (and me reconciling that legacy franchises having their ups and downs is a routine hazard, and thus the sting on Spectre being...disappointing wasn't as bad)

        Which later on, was part of the reason why I'm not among the people who declared Mummy 2017 to be the worst movie of 2017...because I found ALL of Universal's Mummy movies to be terrible, and in fact find the Mummy sub-franchise to be the weakest out of all of the Universal Horror properties.
        Last edited by tasti man LH; 07-28-2018, 03:49 AM.

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        • Originally posted by tasti man LH View Post
          Before Godzilla 2014 I sat down and watched through the entire Godzilla filmography.
          Wow, I watch a lot of movies (I just watched Ghost Stories, which was surprisingly good for what it was) but I don't think I could do that in one go or even one a night, I'd just want something else.

          ...because I found ALL of Universal's Mummy movies to be terrible, and in fact find the Mummy sub-franchise to be the weakest out of all of the Universal Horror properties.
          I'm surprised by this, but not because I've seen a lot of Universal horror movies. I just would have thought there was less to do with Wolfman or the Creature from the Black Lagoon.

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          • Originally posted by nofather View Post
            Wow, I watch a lot of movies (I just watched Ghost Stories, which was surprisingly good for what it was) but I don't think I could do that in one go or even one a night, I'd just want something else.
            Well ok, I didn't do it one sitting, I break to do other things. But I did what I can to watch each movie, one after the other.

            (although at the time I deliberately skipped Godzilla 1998 because I wanted to go into Godzilla 2000 with a clear head)

            I'm surprised by this, but not because I've seen a lot of Universal horror movies. I just would have thought there was less to do with Wolfman or the Creature from the Black Lagoon.
            Wolfman's a bit weird. Since technically there's only the one solo Wolfman movie. The rest of his movies are the crossovers with the other monsters. And, to their credit, his segments do have Larry Talbot on a character arc as he keeps trying to find a way out of his condition.

            Still haven't seen the Creature movies, although I have them.

            Without getting too in-depth, the issue with the Mummy movies is that they have no identity on their own.

            As all of us here would know, monster horror stories tend to follow specific thematic stories to be explored, expanded, or deconstructed. Vampires and being a predator in the guise of a human, Frankenstein and Invisible Man on the arrogance of man in unethical science, Creature on messing with nature and the unknown, etc.

            Mummy stories didn't have that. Universal's Mummy movies kept jumping around to different types of stories with no real consistency. The original 1932 movie was basically just Egyptian Dracula. The rest of the movies were proto-slasher movies. The Hammer movies were remakes of the older Universal movies...on top of 60's-70s exploitation flicks. The Fraser movies were just Indiana Jones-lite. The 2017 movie was...the Fraser movies but without the camp on top of Universal jumping into cinematic universes (the latter of which I'm not convinced with the rest of geek news media has been completely canceled, but that's a different conversation). Why else do you think there haven't been a lot of popular mummy movies? No other production team has figured out where

            (with maybe the only consistent thing is mummies representing the exoticization of foreign cultures...which thus far no movie has approached that topic with the self-awareness needed, and presumably that's a loaded topic no mainstream studio wants to tackle)

            I think it's part of the reason why, in CofD, Mummy: the Curse was such a hit. Because it's setting and themes were unique in a way specifically for mummies that the other supernatural splats couldn't easily cross over into the same way the Arisen can. And those that can (arguably like with Vampire), mummies still do it in a way that's unique to them.

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            • Haven't watched all the Godzilla movies, just several. But I'm still a fan of the genre.

              For the sake of discussion (by the way, thanks for it: I do enjoy having a good one like this), I can't say that Bryan Cranston is the reason I went to see the first one. I do think he's a remarkable actor, but I only watched a season of Breaking Bad and remember little of Malcolm.

              My problem comes with my idea that human characters in Kaiju movies are not much of a protagonist but are a lens that's needed to magnify the monster and the themes. I can deal with unremarkable ones like those of Shin Godzilla as long as they serve that purpose. Thus, the perspective of a scientist whose life is turned around by the Kaiju and that discovers the truth and comes to term with the monsters being real would have been much more interesting to me than that of a generic soldier, especially in a movie meant to be the beginning of a franchise and the introduction of a new Godzilla.

              With that out the way, let the Kaiju duke it out and I'll be fine. I'm not asking for more Cranston but rather for more Godzilla supported by interesting human characters. In that movie, the best candidate was Cranston, which is why I feel his arc was handled poorly. Leaving out the fact that Ken Watanabe is always good for me and I hope we'll see more of him in the next one.

              But overall I also liked the movie. Quite a bit, in fact (though I still think Kong: Skull Island does some of the things I care for better). It's just that prasing something in a way that allows me to have an interesting conversation is not something I'm always good with: I always feel that would be boring for others to hear. My bad there.

              This new movie seems like the perfect hybrid between what I liked about Godzilla and Kong to me, which is great.

              Speaking about James Bond, I always loved the franchise. With the SPECTRE and Blofeld being favorite of mine, the last movie was a nasty disappointment for me instead.
              Last edited by Cinder; 07-28-2018, 08:18 AM.


              Cinder's Comprehensive Collection of Creations - Homebrew Hub

              I write about Beast: The Primordial a lot

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              • Originally posted by Cinder View Post
                My problem comes with my idea that human characters in Kaiju movies are not much of a protagonist but are a lens that's needed to magnify the monster and the themes.
                Well, I'll take this moment to segue into my thoughts on why human characters in Kaiju movies have been such a thorn in the genre's side:

                The Human-Kaiju (Dis)Connection

                One issue that has constantly plagued kaiju movies since Godzilla first stomped on the screens in 1954. And that’s the human characters. That they are called out as being bland, forgettable, and boring characters that you feel are wasting your time watching them It has recently come to people’s attention again because of Godzilla 2014.

                So…why?

                Why has this issue been persistent in every kaiju movie since then? Why has it not been addressed in any meaningful way? And of any incremental changes made in some movies, why are they not carried forward in later movies?

                While it’s easy to say that the various production teams and say that the many writers, directors, actors, etc are unskilled and incompetent at their jobs…that seems like an overly simplistic and reactionary solution to come to. And unrealistic: it seems a little bit much to assume that all production teams across the franchise’s +60 year history were all terrible in their industry. The truth of the matter is far more complex.

                The humans are NOT the main characters

                This is admittedly something that comes up in other monster movies but as it should be said:

                People come to monster movies to see monsters.

                The monsters are the main selling point of the movie. The monsters are the ones who drive the plot and story. And on occasion, are the emotional center as characters. Even in the old Universal Horror movies, it’s the monsters themselves that are the hook into the movie. The humans characters are seen as background bit players. Irrelevant scenery. Unimportant.

                And in the case of the Godzilla franchise…yeah, it’s kind of hard to compare the radioactive lizard hundreds of feet tall against the puny human. Just like how in Universal Horror, you’re more enthralled by the mysterious and sensual Dracula, the monstrous yet innocent Adam Frankenstein, the savage but tragic Wolf-Man…versus the square-jawed blond-haired man to save the pretty girl from the horrible monster.

                And then there’s their place in the story of each movie…

                Kaiju are the shakers and movers of the plot

                The kaiju are the ones who really drive the plot forward. They are the most important part of the story.

                This is especially the case when it’s a kaiju vs kaiju, where it’s about two giant monsters fighting each other. Something that humans have no impact or say in. Oh sure, the humans are the ones that get the kaiju vs kaiju battle to happen: Destroy All Monsters, vs Ebirah, and Final Wars all have a plot point about humans needing to free Godzilla so he can fight the other kaiju. So you’re just waiting around for the humans to make sure the thing you want to happen so you can stop watching this thing you don’t want to watch.

                The only time when they step back from it is if the kaiju movie is a solo monster movie. Where the conflict is purely kaiju vs human. For stuff like the more serious and dramatic Godzilla movies (Godzilla 1954, Godzilla 1985, Shin Godzilla) this works fine. Unfortunately, it’s a little bit much to expect every single future Godzilla movie to be a solo venture where it’s just humans vs Godzilla so that’s not an ideal solution.

                What about just making the human stories be really riveting and emotionally gripping to make it interesting? That won’t work either because…

                Human Drama Gets in the Way and is Pointless

                Separate human storylines and drama are a bad mesh with kaiju. Because all of it seems kind of pointless compared to the main plot. Why should we care about their estranged parent, your failing relationship with your spouse, or grappling with personal demons…when there’s giant monsters destroying everything? Frankly all of that seems trivial when the end of the world is happening. Those characters needs to be concerned about either staying alive or getting to work on fighting the kaiju. Particularly with the framing of kaiju (and in recent movies) of them being living gods…and that humanity are just ants. And what chance do ants have against warring gods? Especially if the story isn’t an Attack on Titan-esque story.

                “Get in the damn robot, Shinji” may have been reduced to a meme, but it’s weight still holds here. Who gives a shit about your insecurities and daddy issues when giant monsters are out there tearing up downtown, and you need to get shit done.

                So with all of that said, you may be thinking that the human characters seem pretty useless. So much so that they just seem like dead weight to an entire film genre. So why not just cut them out entirely and leave it at that?

                Unfortunately that’s not a simple solution either. While the humans don’t seem like a particularly engaging part of kaiju movies…they’re ultimately necessary. More ways then you can imagine. So much so that the stories of the movies are left lacking without them.

                How? Well…part 2 later.

                Speaking about James Bond, I always loved the franchise. With the SPECTRE and Blofeld being favorite of mine, the last movie was a nasty disappointment for me instead.
                Yeaaah I'm left with the impression that EON got a little bit too overeager on reintroducing SPECTRE and Blofeld after getting the rights back from the McClory Estate...on top of trying to throw in with the cinematic universe craze.

                My only hope is that out of all the movie studios out there, EON tends to be the most receptive to criticisms to their movies. And that they're very quick to address them in their next movie (Moonraker going too far on campy nonsense, prompting the relatively more grounded and serious For Your Eyes Only, Quantum of Solace indulging in shaky cam during the action was pulled back in Skyfall). So I'm hopeful that whatever Bond 25 will be will address the problems of Spectre.

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                • The new Shazam trailer makes the movie look... fun? Enjoyable? It's been a long time since I last said those words about a DC movie. Shazam was always one of my favorite DC heroes and I've been pretty worried since I heard they were making a movie but honestly I'm looking forward to seeing it now.

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                  • So cool. Can finally see Reeves' Superman in the theater.

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                    • These pics, taken 40 years apart from each other, make me smile. Still hyped for the new one.





                      Cinder's Comprehensive Collection of Creations - Homebrew Hub

                      I write about Beast: The Primordial a lot

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                      • So, anybody seen any terrible movies lately?

                        I've heard bad things about Mile 22.
                        Last edited by Isator Levi; 09-06-2018, 02:26 PM.


                        I have approximate knowledge of many things.
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                        • Originally posted by Isator Levi View Post
                          So, anybody seen any terrible movies lately?
                          The movie How It Ends has one of the worst endings I think I've seen in a movie recently...which is funny considering the name of the movie. But yea, it's terrible...


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                          • Originally posted by tasti man LH View Post
                            “Get in the damn robot, Shinji” may have been reduced to a meme, but it’s weight still holds here. Who gives a shit about your insecurities and daddy issues when giant monsters are out there tearing up downtown, and you need to get shit done.
                            I wrote a thing, and then looked back over some of your post, and felt distinctly as though you were setting up to say about the same thing as I am.

                            That would make my post feel redundant, but... I'm loath to throw it away entirely.

                            So I'm leaving it intact, with this caveat at the forefront.

                            {In that specific case? Being forced into traumatic situations through a combination of direct pressure and things such as "if you don't, I'll have to resort to sending this terribly injured person in instead", the fact that several of the giant monsters specifically go in for a form of psychological assault, and the experience of being hooked up to the damn robot can shred your identity, makes for a compelling drama around the toll that such a conflict can create.

                            I find this to be a lot like saying that a war movie that focuses on the growing trauma of the soldiers is being indulgent and distracted, when there's a dulce et decorum mission to be undertaken.

                            As giant monster movies go, it can ground the emotional stakes of the story and humanise the overall content to get a sense of how the bystanders are perceiving this battle of gods in which they are helpless and irrelevant, I think.}



                            I have approximate knowledge of many things.
                            Watch me play Dark Souls III (completed)
                            https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLDtbr08HW8RW4jOHN881YA3yRZBV4lpYw Watch me play Breath of the Wild (updated 12/03)

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                            • Originally posted by Isator Levi View Post
                              I wrote a thing, and then looked back over some of your post, and felt distinctly as though you were setting up to say about the same thing as I am.
                              You're half right.

                              My larger point is that it's an issue if the human storylines and arcs are too mutually exclusive from the monster storylines. Which often times it is. That if you do that, it takes away from the actual selling point of the movie, which is the monsters.

                              Some past Godzilla movies that I know that try to address it include in vs Megaguirus and Against Mechagodzilla, where the main character is in the military and gets involved with the battles against Godzilla. During the battle, they make some kind of rash decision. That decision causes a bunch of their fellow soldiers to get killed, instead of them, leaving them with survivor's guilt, and the distrust of their other surviving fellow soldiers. With their arc being about trying to redeem themselves and move past their guilt.

                              That type of storyline, if you are insistent on compelling human drama, would be much appreciated. It actually is relevant to the story at hand and not feel out of place.

                              But I'll get into more details my follow up post on my previous post regarding humans in kaiju movies:

                              Puny Humans in my Giant Monster movie (and why they're needed)

                              Pacing

                              90-120 minutes of non-stop kaiju action would be a CHORE to watch.

                              While the kaiju genre is defiant of conventional movie storytelling structure, one thing it still needs to adhere to is pacing. Like any action movie, the action scenes need breathing room in between. Usually to progress plot points, and further characterization. Doesn’t matter if it’s a Marvel movie, James Bond, or even The Raid movies, none of them ever do non-stop action. And it has happened for the worst in Godzilla movies. For instance, for me, the worse offender that does this is GMK. That climactic final battle at the end where Godzilla is throwing down with King Ghidorah at the end…I felt that it was way too long. It just kept going on and on, and where you think it’s over and the monsters are done…they get back up and go at it again! It’s like “ok, we had enough, can we just wrap this up please?”

                              Humans provide the context of the story

                              So…remember this scene from Godzilla 2014?



                              That was Dr Serizawa explaining Godzilla’s characterization and motivation.

                              He’s explaining it because Godzilla himself can’t.

                              Normally this kind of thing violates the sacred visual storytelling law of “show don’t tell”…unfortunately this kind of thing is necessary here. Humans can explain and interact with the plot. Giant monsters cannot. That they’re able to communicate complex and abstract ideas, and thus give context on why the monsters are fighting.

                              Context is still important

                              Context is still key, especially in action movies. Even if the plot surrounding the action scenes are paper thin, they still provide *a* reason why the characters are fighting and why we should care if one character should win over the other. It’s the catalyst for being invested in a fight scene. While loving it for the technical execution of a fight scene is fine, and I know people (including users on this very sight) go for that…but for me that’s not really enough to get invested in the action.



                              Out of context: Two military-looking guys are beating up a guy in red and gold armor.

                              In-context: The two military guys are best friends. So much so that they will help each other out in any situation no matter what. The guy in the armor has hounded one of the military guys throughout the movie, believing him to be a murderer. And previously before the action scene, he finds out while the other guy didn’t murder the people he thought he did, he DID murder his parents years ago, and now he’s out for blood on the military guy. The shield military guy chooses to stand with his best friend, despite also being friends with the armor guy.



                              Out of context: White/tan jumpsuit guy is trying to hit space-black-knight guy with their laser swords.

                              In context: The guy in the jumpsuit is out for justice, because he believes the black knight guy killed his father. He just came back from training, specifically to fight this guy. The black knight guy, while he could just kill this guy easily, is intrigued by the jumpsuit guy. That he feels SOMETHING familiar about him, but can’t quite place what. So he decides to fight him directly.



                              Out of context: Kid with spiky black hair fighting weird green guy

                              In context: The kid with spiky black hair has a history with the “father” of the green guy. The father had previously almost conquered the world and had killed a bunch of his friends. The father, in a last-ditch effort, created a spawn to continue his fight at a later time and finish his father’s work. The kid has been training all this time for this day to come to fight the son, and the day has finally come. It’s not just a fight, the fate of the world rests in his hands.

                              See? Action movies can’t survive on action alone. They still need to provide the bare minimum of story to explain why the action is happening. Even if you are the guy who only comes for the action, you still need to at least know why you should care about one fighter over the other.

                              And it’s important that the human characters do this. Because what prevents the kaiju from presenting the story context is…

                              Kaiju can’t act (like humans)

                              While there’s quite a lot of factors that go into depicting a character in film, with the set-up coming from the writing and directing, the post-processing coming from editing and cinematography, for me personally what carries a character is the acting. Which in of itself I’d say break downs into three components: dialogue, facial expressions, and body language. These are the three techniques that’s on the actor to really bring out their character and is what really makes the bulk of things. A good script and an amazing director doesn’t mean much if an actor can’t pull it all together in their performance. And you can employ all the fanciest cinematography and editing tricks in the world, none of it matters if the actor isn’t selling the character.

                              Kaiju characters, however, can’t act the same way normal human actors can.

                              There is way too many factors brought on by the genre and the special effects used to portray kaiju. Going down the list:
                              • Dialogue: kaiju almost never talk. Because they can’t talk, it’s hard for them to communicate complex and abstract ideas like ideology, empathy, or…any emotion.

                                In the case of Godzilla, despite the many interpretations that vary wildly from serious to silly, neither Godzilla nor his other monsters almost never speak. In the instances that it did happen, one is attached to what’s considered the worst movie of the franchise and happened in a dream, and the other was an invention of the English dub. After that? Nothing. There were no more attempts to make any kaiju talk. Not even in the incredibly dumb Final Wars, despite it reveling in the camp action. Hard to say if all the Godzilla production teams over the years mutually agreed that making giant lizards speak was an incredibly stupid idea, or if there was a studio mandate from Toho saying that no production team can make one of their monsters talk, or they’re permanently kicked off the studio. Personally, I’d go with the former, but wouldn’t be surprised with the latter.

                                Even in this year’s Rampage, the kaiju movie that’s more deliberately made to be a B-movie farce, only goes as far as having George communicate via sign-language…something that still needs The Rock’s character to interpret. Because apparently, even Brad Peyton & Co either also thought it was too much to make the movie THAT silly to have a giant ape talk, or it just never occurred to them to do so.

                                The only reason I can think of why this is, especially considering the other toku contemporary, Power Rangers/Super Sentai, is that Godzilla movies, no matter the tone still have…a somewhat self-serious attitude to them. That there is supposed to be a gravitas to the events happening and to have some stakes to them.
                              • Facial Expressions: There is, unfortunately, a lot of limited range of expressions in kaiju. The main issue is technical issues. The suits used in past movies were not made with being super-expressive in mind. It was always as advanced as making sure the monster’s mouth moved up and down and if their eyes blinked.

                                Not helping things is the varying degree of…inhuman looking faces. While making emotive faces on the Gargantuan brothers or Kong are fine due to their naturally humanoid faces…the other monsters not so much. From King Caesar, Baragon, Godzilla himself, In then we get to the more utterly inhuman faces like Gigan or…Mothra. For the kaiju that consistently tends to be Lawful Good, this face doesn’t exactly inspire heroic justice with this face.

                                And while yes, in the years since there have been advances made in animatronics and puppetry, some of which have made it into more…keep in mind that Japan is behind compared to the rest of the world on special effects tech. They got no equivalent of the Henson Company or WETA. So what we’ve seen in the final products have been limited.
                              • Body Language: Despite advances over the years in the suit tech to make them more flexible and generally comfortable to wear…they are still stiff and unwieldy. As has been historically documented, it’s a struggle for suit actors to do the basic act of walking. So if they have that much trouble with that, do you really think they’re physically capable of pulling off any strong, emotive body expressions?

                                It’s honestly part of the reason why the movies featuring Little G have been among my favorite Godzilla movies, because it features Godzilla do something characteristically different then what he normally does: actually having something to PROTECT instead of just destroy. Expressing (mostly) body language how he’s out of his league in doing something he doesn’t normally do (like his questionable teaching methods for his son when showing him the atomic breath) to embracing Little G to keep him warm from the snowfall.


                              So all of the above, I feel, are the main reasons that hold back kaiju from being interesting, engaging characters. They’re the main attraction of their movies, and yet they can’t even do the bare minimum of what people expect in protagonists in their movies.

                              That said the innovation of CG have turned things around.

                              Praise the CG

                              While it might be blasphemy for me to say this, CG has been a big improvement to kaiju movies.

                              When it comes to the monsters, any physical limitations from the suits aren’t a factor. No need for having to worry about constructing a suit, animatronics to bring facial expressions and detailed body language to life, and no guy inside the suit to worry about the health and safety us. Sky’s the limit on what they can do with the monsters in terms of acting-through-animation.

                              And personally I feel things have played out pretty well. Legendary Godzilla has the best characterization out of any of his incarnations. Now he’s shown as a world weary warrior, protector of the world not necessarily because he wants to, but because no one else will. Or Kong: Skull Island, which in dispensing with just remaking the 1933 movie, now Kong is a lonely and melancholy king of the island. Policing the island of its other kaiju residents on his own, possibly as a way to live up to the memory of his departed parents. Suddenly these two iconic monsters became a lot more interesting then their past versions.

                              All achieved through the magic of CG.

                              Purists will say that it takes away from the spirit of kaiju movies. For me though, it’s a necessary advancement to make, andincidentally, I should note that Toho has no issue using CGI and digital effects in their movies. Not as prolific as going full CG, but not so much as pulling a Christopher Nolan and saying “no CG period”.

                              Still, it’s not enough for them to carry an entire movie without humans. They still need humans to vocalize and give context on why the story and monster clashes is happening, and to communicate the more complex and abstracts ideas. Since you know, no one wants to make the monsters actually talk.

                              Conclusion

                              Overall…this is why I feel you can’t take humans out of the kaiju movie. They’re there to carry the weight of the rest of the story where the kaiju can’t. Specifically on why you should care about the kaiju fighting in the first place. And why I personally will continue to defend their inclusion…but I’m still up for critiquing the execution of their inclusion.

                              -----------------------------------------------------
                              Addendum: Pacific Rim Paradox

                              As anyone might have picked up from the Pacific Rim thread…that franchise is incredibly frustrating to me.

                              This series of story has the perfect out to bring in real, palpable and engaging emotional story arcs with human characters that ARE directly involved in the plot, enough so that they directly influence and participate what happens…because they’re fighting the giant monsters.

                              While everyone will say that Uprising dropped the ball on meaningfully continue what the first movie had left off, the first movie wasn’t perfect either. While the concepts behind the characters like Rayleigh, Mako, and Stacker were strong, they just barely missed the mark on making them great characters. Lots of dialogue Telling their character instead of Showing it, the dialogue itself being clunky and cringey at worst (seriously, this I always found to be del Toro’s one major failing), and held up by…questionable acting direction.

                              So yeah. Pacific Rim had every opportunity to be something great with amazing human characters and drama on top of awesome mecha and kaiju fights…but it didn’t. And considering the reception to Uprising, I don’t think it’ll get that chance again.

                              And now, ending on some an amusing meme I've since found related to Godzilla:

                              Last edited by tasti man LH; 09-07-2018, 11:12 PM.

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                              • Finally got around to seeing It today. Nice movie, I really didn't like the original, well the miniseries that was on way back when. The bullying was a bit crazy, by the time people are carving their names into your flesh and attempting hit and runs maybe you should get an adult involved. Might be a mix with the bully's dad being a cop, but he was also abusive so who knows where that would lead.

                                And yes, Isator. I saw Inoperable. I enjoy Danielle Harris but this was another bad one with her in it. Puppet Master's Littlest Reich was better than the main continuity Puppet Master movies, and certainly not nearly as pretentious, but I think didn't really hit it out of the park in terms of movies, even in a memorable shlocky way (for instance, last night I watched Return of the Living Dead, which while being cheesy as hell is arguably a good movie because of it). Sick for Toys, which could have been interestingly done but instead they dropped the ball
                                killing the main character that could have taken things in scary ways and letting his less interesting friend take up the rest of the movie with his relationship problems no one cared about
                                they seemed to try to tack on a message at the end but it seemed hamfisted, straining the credulity of the police character in a movie that already asked you to sustain a lot of disbelief. I had been waiting for the Barn to start showing up on Amazon for a while now, the trailer made it seem like one of the good 80s throwback horror flicks, but it was crap. The Summer of 84 was only technically good, good acting some some and clearly nicer production values but the story was meh and while it attempted to be one of those 80s throwbacks the high production value and youtube meta analysis didn't help.

                                Unsane is a pretty good movie, though. Claire Foy, really everyone is great in it, the movie's dark and the stakes don't get so high they're unbelievable, plus both the plots are things that have actually happened so there's some gritty reality to it. It can be brutal at points, though, I imagine a lot of people might get really freaked out by it.
                                The main character goes to a psychiatrist to vent for a bit and does let it slip that she's had suicidal thoughts, she's asked to sign some things and does so not being told what they are, then is directed to a hospital where it turns out the forms she signed were to have her voluntarily committed, and the hospital doesn't have to let her go until the doctors say she's okay, but since her insurance is paying for everything and she has no one who can fight for her release, they're just going to hold her until the insurance runs out. I remember an investigation that revealed some of this, mostly with kids but with adults too, was pretty dark stuff. Anyways that's only half of the character's problems.

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