Paradox Interactive (the Crusader Kings people, not the Conan/Mutant Chronicles ones) buy the White Wolf properties [Merged x10]

[Crumplepunch]

Does it, though? Like I said before, the Bloodlines games, even the Hunter the Reckoning games were, for the most part, entirely separate from the mythology of the rest of the World of Darkness. There was nothing there, for instance, you couldn't have with a Vampire the Requiem or Hunter the Vigil base for the game.

Do you think so? Bloodlines (and its predecessor, Redemption) hinged heavily on the ambiguous legitimacy of the Gehenna prophesy and the apocalyptic tone evoked by it. This is one component Requiem definitely lacks.

[nofather]

The mythology of WoD is more fully fleshed out than CofD, that's what makes it easier for them to work with when spreading out to other forms of media.

Emphasis mine.

Does it, though? Like I said before, the Bloodlines games, even the Hunter the Reckoning games were, for the most part, entirely separate from the mythology of the rest of the World of Darkness. There was nothing there, for instance, you couldn't have with a Vampire the Requiem or Hunter the Vigil base for the game.

[TyrannicalRabbit]

IF they were going to use ChroD. I think a format that would work well would be something along the likes of Black Mirror, Tales from the Dark Side, Twilight Zone,etc. Something that shows how weird and crazy the corners are in the setting while WoD for extended plots, reoccurring characters,etc.

[Darksider]

The mythology of WoD is more fully fleshed out than CofD, that's what makes it easier for them to work with when spreading out to other forms of media. CofD keeps things nebulous on purpose, which doesn't lend itself as well when building up a mythology that stretches across games, books, movies etc. It works fine for RPG's where each ST gets to decide what's fact and what's not for their particular group, but not so well when you want everyone to have a common point of reference for the stories being told by a singular storyteller (ala Martin and the projects he's overseeing.)

[nofather]

He said setting. He didn't say metaplot. There's a huge difference between the two.

I'm well aware, that's why I didn't say 'a setting which is a metaplot.' But since they are both settings and the only real difference is the metaplot, it's an easy way to distinguish the two.

[Asmodai]

How so? The existing games, which were touted earlier in the thread as successes, took more of a Chronicles spin on it, keeping the attitudes of groups but not really sticking close to the metaplot.

Why do you believe sticking to a setting with a metaplot would 'definitely make more sense' than sticking to a setting without one? It really seems like they could go either way.

He said setting. He didn't say metaplot. There's a huge difference between the two.

[nofather]

WoD and its huge, developed setting definitely makes more sense.

How so? The existing games, which were touted earlier in the thread as successes, took more of a Chronicles spin on it, keeping the attitudes of groups but not really sticking close to the metaplot.

Why do you believe sticking to a setting with a metaplot would 'definitely make more sense' than sticking to a setting without one? It really seems like they could go either way.

[dxanders]

Yeah, CofD would be good for non metaplot games. And that is more or less what Paradox does best, they tend to be all about setting up the rules and then emergent game play rather then story driven games.A VTR Crusader Kings about city politics could also be great.

But for anything story driven I really see why they go with WOD. You want books with long complex stories that you can throw at script writers (who have probably never touched wod before.) and go "write a scrips out of that story."

Yeah, I'd love CK: VtR, especially if they drew inspiration from Damnation City.

That said, the sort of emergent and complex gaming that Paradox focuses on is somewhat more of a fringe market. I kind of get the impression they're trying to establish themselves as a triple A publisher with this franchise, so WoD and its huge, developed setting definitely makes more sense.

[dxanders]

You aren't disproving me there.

I'm not trying to disprove you. Your comment was trying to disprove mine.

It just strikes me that when we're explicitly talking about building out mythology into other media, the game line that's rich with mythology is a better choice than the game line that consciously avoids defined mythology.

I'm not making an argument for the supremacy of WoD as a setting.

[Palp]

WoD is definitely the better brand for building out mythology into TV and gaming. Still, I kind of feel disappointed that we won't see any CoD games, because I think their mechanics would translate into the games space in more interesting ways (particularly for more emergent gaming models). A VtR RPG that uses the Touchstones system as a core component would be awesome, as would an X-COM style tactical game that draws on the themes and mood of HtV.

Yeah, CofD would be good for non metaplot games. And that is more or less what Paradox does best, they tend to be all about setting up the rules and then emergent game play rather then story driven games.A VTR Crusader Kings about city politics could also be great.

But for anything story driven I really see why they go with WOD. You want books with long complex stories that you can throw at script writers (who have probably never touched wod before.) and go "write a scrips out of that story."

[Heavy Arms]

What is there to disprove when one of the major arguments for it being a better design choice for WWP's goals, is the fact that it's the easier brand to use?

Easier and better aren't the same thing. But that doesn't mean they aren't effectively equivalent in this context.

[Ephsy]

No, I'd generally say better. The CoD books are largely built as tool kits. I think formalizing the setting too much would kind of defeat the point.

WoD is prefab and strikes me as being more more conducive to shared universe stories.

You aren't disproving me there.

[dxanders]

Not better. Easier.

No, I'd generally say better. The CoD books are largely built as tool kits. I think formalizing the setting too much would kind of defeat the point.

WoD is prefab and strikes me as being more more conducive to shared universe stories.

[Ephsy]

WoD is definitely the better brand for building out mythology into TV and gaming. Still, I kind of feel disappointed that we won't see any CoD games, because I think their mechanics would translate into the games space in more interesting ways (particularly for more emergent gaming models). A VtR RPG that uses the Touchstones system as a core component would be awesome, as would an X-COM style tactical game that draws on the themes and mood of HtV.

Not better. Easier.

[dxanders]

WoD is definitely the better brand for building out mythology into TV and gaming. Still, I kind of feel disappointed that we won't see any CoD games, because I think their mechanics would translate into the games space in more interesting ways (particularly for more emergent gaming models). A VtR RPG that uses the Touchstones system as a core component would be awesome, as would an X-COM style tactical game that draws on the themes and mood of HtV.