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  • Originally posted by Tessie View Post
    You mean the entire bullshit about whether the A (in LGBTQA and other permutations of the acronym) should stand for ally or ace?
    Asexuality of course. Unfortunately there are way too many regressives who think that by casually upholding the cause (like wearing a shirt with a slogan, using a hashtag or eating something red, orange, yellow, green, blue and purple in the course of a day) elevates them above all the other plebians who are not as virtuous as them. Unfortunately these people exist both within and without the LGBT community.

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    • Charlaquin: Ah, yes. The whole "straight passing privilege". I haven't heard that one before

      Beriom: Preaching to the bitter choir.


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      • LGBTQA gatekeeping is a problem, in my opinion. Bi/Pan folks, Trans folks, and Aces often get the short end of the stick compared to lesbians and especially gays. There will probably always be questions of if heteroromantic asexuals or Transgender folks belong. I think they should be included, though. Honestly if you really want to be among queer people I say you should be able to.

        I am going to phrase this part very carefully. I think that the current zeitgeist is such that granularity on the sexuality spectrum and gender spectrum are being focused more heavily on right now than they were before or will be in the near future, particuarly regarding how people identify. For people figuring themselves out the granularity can be a boon. It also leads to some head scratching.

        The other thing we are shaking out is how people identify vs. what their behavior actually is. I have no idea how that will wind up being sorted out.
        Last edited by Baroness Nerak; 03-19-2017, 02:51 PM.


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        • Originally posted by Baroness Nerak View Post
          I am going to phrase this part very carefully. I think that the current zeitgeist is such that granularity on the sexuality spectrum and gender spectrum are being focused more heavily on right now than they were before or will be in the near future, particuarly regarding how people identify. For people figuring themselves out the granularity can be a boon. It also leads to some head scratching.
          I think that this constant push to define yourself in increasingly granular ways focusses too much on defining what you are and takes away from the freedom to be. Plus there's the intellectual basis for it all rooted in classism where the highly-educated people of the world define for the lesser-educated once what they are and what they can be, paired with pressure and shame if you do not conform to these standards that the intellectuals have set for you.

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          • Originally posted by Beriorn View Post
            I think that this constant push to define yourself in increasingly granular ways focusses too much on defining what you are and takes away from the freedom to be. Plus there's the intellectual basis for it all rooted in classism where the highly-educated people of the world define for the lesser-educated once what they are and what they can be, paired with pressure and shame if you do not conform to these standards that the intellectuals have set for you.
            I don't say you don't have a point, but at the same time increased granularity is also required. I don't think it's possible to identify and deal with prejudice and inequality without defining the group that suffers from those things, as well as defining subgroups that has their own struggles.
            I think the end goal is that labels would no longer exist because the need for them no longer exists, but trying to get rid of labels would make those groups and, more importanly, their struggles invisible again. (I'm not saying that's what you said you wanted. I just continued my train of thought.)


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            • Well, there is a major push in the current zietgiest for labeling oneself. I am not really a fan of it, but I see it as a necessary by-product of emerging acceptance and understanding of queer people and a willingness to look harder at gender. I think we will, and should, reach a point where we are a lot more laid back about it, and some newer way to define yourself will pop up among younger folks as hip (and people over 30 will complain about it, too. ^_^)


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              • I don't disagree that the trend towards granularity comes with its own problems. But I can't be too critical of it because I remember the frustration I felt at the fact that none of the terms I was familiar with described my own identity or sexuality to my satisfaction, and the relief I felt at discovering ones that did. And if the trend towards granularity helps more people feel that same sense of validation, it's good in my book. I am glad, however, that we have a few broad umbrella terms like "trans" and "queer". I think there's a lot of value in being able to speak both generally (I'm queer and trans) and granularly (I'm a pansexual transfeminine genderfluid person) as the need arises.

                But it is important to remember that these terms are flexible and people use them to describe themselves for deeply personal reasons. The reason I prefer to call myself pansexual over bisexual may be the very same reason another person prefers bisexual over pansexual, and neither of us is wrong. Likewise, a man who happily sleeps only with other men but has the occasional sexual fantasy about women would not be wrong for calling himself bisexual because of those fantasies, nor would he be wrong for calling himself gay because he does not have a desire to act on them. Both are accurate ways to describe his sexuality, and it's a matter of which he feels more comfortable describing himself as.
                Last edited by Charlaquin; 03-19-2017, 04:04 PM.


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                • Sorry to possibly derail, but I honestly don't know where else to say this:

                  I'm sad. I'm recently trying to wholly accept and live as the queer person I am, and things are rough, in a weird way. My bi/pansexuality has always been ignored by my family. It's sad, but I've gotten used to it. My friends have always been supportive, and that's enough for me.

                  Recently, I've come out as Genderqueer (I'll just leave it at that, because I want no part of that granularity conversation right now) and it's...
                  It's like I yelled in a room full of deaf people. Nobody is hearing me. I'm ASKING, often on an individual, personal basis, for people to TRY using a pronoun I can be comfortable with. Asking friends and family, people who love me, just to TRY not calling me "Bro" and the like. ...It's not happening yet. My birth name, Joey, is gender neutral. My nickname, Az or Azrael is the same. Can't they just use my name if the pronouns confuse them? Is the singular "They" so hard??

                  I'm sorry if your journey makes my complaints seem trivial, but I'm genuinely hurting and would really appreciate those friends and family being able to hug the real me.

                  Thanks for listening.

                  - Az
                  Last edited by AzraelFirestorm; 03-20-2017, 04:50 PM.


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                  • Originally posted by AzraelFirestorm View Post
                    Sorry to possibly derail, but I honestly don't know where else to say this:

                    I'm sad. I'm recently trying to wholly accept and live as the queer person I am, and things are rough, in a weird way. My bi/pansexuality has always been ignored by my family. It's sad, but I've gotten used to it. My friends have always been supportive, and that's enough for me.

                    Recently, I've come out as Genderqueer (I'll just leave it at that, because I want no part of that granularity conversation right now) and it's...
                    It's like I yelled in a room full of deaf people. Nobody is hearing me. I'm ASKING, often on an individual, personal basis, for people to TRY using a pronoun I can be comfortable with. Asking friends and family, people who love me, just to TRY not calling me "Bro" and the like. ...It's not happening yet. My birth name, Joey, is gender neutral. My nickname, Az or Azrael is the same. Can't they just use my name if the pronouns confuse them? Is the singular "They" so hard??

                    I'm sorry if your journey makes my complaints seem trivial, but I'm genuinely hurting and would really appreciate those friends and family being able to hug the real me.

                    Thanks for listening.

                    - Az
                    This is a shitty thing to have to deal with, and my thoughts go out to you. I know it's not the same, but I at least will use your preferred pronouns. A few people on these boards put their preferred pronouns in their signature and I haven't seen anyone here disrespect such requests. Then again you and I frequent different corners of the forums, I don't know how folks in your part of the community would react. I would assume well enough, though.


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                    • It's no excuse, but I know that the singular "they" is a lot harder to remember sometimes than "he" or "she" because the gender binary is the worst and deeply ingrained in our psyches. It's really easy (for me) to gender my trans friends properly, but I'm always messing up with my genderqueer/non-binary friends because I suck. It is really, really sad that your friends are just ignoring your wishes and not even trying. For what it's worth, I will always refer to you as "they" if/when it comes up! I also hang around Charlaquin's turf, so it probably won't come up much, but I've got your back!

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                      • Originally posted by RomulusGloriosus View Post
                        It's no excuse, but I know that the singular "they" is a lot harder to remember sometimes than "he" or "she" because the gender binary is the worst and deeply ingrained in our psyches. It's really easy (for me) to gender my trans friends properly, but I'm always messing up with my genderqueer/non-binary friends because I suck. It is really, really sad that your friends are just ignoring your wishes and not even trying. For what it's worth, I will always refer to you as "they" if/when it comes up! I also hang around Charlaquin's turf, so it probably won't come up much, but I've got your back!
                        For me, I have the opposite problem; I default to they for every single person I come across, and sometimes forget to switch to something else even if told so. They/them is a pretty safe set to default to, IMHO.


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                        • Thank you so much Charlaquin @RomulusGloriosus

                          A good friend of mine read the post and assured me that they'd respect my identity and reassured me of their friendship. I cried tears of joy just having ONE person see me and acknowledge me, so I can say that I'm grateful, but words fail to describe the gratitude and comfort of spirit your recognition and respect makes me feel.


                          (They/Them/Their) https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/borderland

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                          • Polish Youtuber made great LGBTQ+ ( and other acronyms ) rebrand - we should say 'people' ( 'ludzie' in Polish ) instead acronyms. So simple and so much solves every problem.



                            Pitty it was made in response of our European MP's not signing European Parliament resolution to deman strengthen action on the rights of LGBTI people.

                            http://www.europarl.europa.eu/sides/...EN&language=EN


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                            • I've decided I'm going back to wearing makeup when I feel like it again. No more waiting for "appropriate" holidays where I feel safe. I should feel emotionally safe enough to wear eyeliner, lipstick and any other cosmetics I find pretty (and affordable. I'm not a spoiled bitch. I just wanna look good.) whenever I want.

                              The same goes for clothes. Yes, I will probably continue wearing t-shirts and cargo pants, mostly. I'm lazy and I like having extra pockets. Sue me. I also love stockings, summer dresses and silk blouses. Those just lack extra pockets. That's all. Dresses need some ninja-stealth pockets. Pockets are super useful.


                              (They/Them/Their) https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/borderland

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                              • Originally posted by AzraelFirestorm View Post
                                The same goes for clothes. Yes, I will probably continue wearing t-shirts and cargo pants, mostly. I'm lazy and I like having extra pockets. Sue me. I also love stockings, summer dresses and silk blouses. Those just lack extra pockets. That's all. Dresses need some ninja-stealth pockets. Pockets are super useful.
                                Female clothes need better pockets.

                                I don't carry a purse. So I have everything I need in a little Owl wallet that hangs off my keys. I keep my cell phone in my back pocket.

                                My fiance has been trying to talk me into a Samsung Note sized phone. My response? "It won't fit in my little girl pockets. Stupid small pockets"

                                Clothes manufacturers, please make clothes with useful pockets.

                                /off topic rant


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