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On the discrepancy between Yosha's stats and face

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  • On the discrepancy between Yosha's stats and face

    I would like to ask for one of the following:

    a) Change Yosha's physical stats to be STR 10, DEX 13, CON 8;

    b) (preferred) Give Yosha a face that doesn't look like this:




    Simurgh, Mysterium Thyrsus in Mountains of Shadow (IC|OOC)

  • #2
    No?

    It's a fantasy game about playing anthropomorphic animals. Forcing stat changes because their visual appearance is different from normal dogs is... completely missing the point.

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    • #3
      Thanks for your opinion! However, at this time I will not be adjusting her statistics or the artwork for Yosha.

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      • #4
        To expand on this a bit, Charisma isn't just physical appearance. That isn't true in the original OGL system[1], and it's increasingly untrue when dealing with a game that features rats, cats, dogs, and badgers all (more or less) on the same level. Charisma is a component of personal magnetism and the ability to negotiate -- elements that a princess raised in a family steeped in diplomacy and etiquette will have in spades. I get that some people might not find pugs cute (obviously I do, but not everyone shares my taste), but Yosha's social ability has very little to do with her appearance.

        [1] Waaaaaay back in the ancient days of AD&D, the book Unearthed Arcana addressed this by introducing a new ability called Comeliness. It never stuck as a core rule, and hasn't really appeared in subsequent editions. However, the fact that there was a perceived mechanical need to reflect physical appearance reinforces that Charisma was never intended to fill that rule.

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        • #5
          I'm not talking about her social abilty. I'm talking about her squashed face preventing her from breathing.


          Simurgh, Mysterium Thyrsus in Mountains of Shadow (IC|OOC)

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          • #6
            Actually, as bipedal creatures, brachycephalic dogs would be better adapted to breathing while standing upright than normal muzzle dogs (every mammal that frequently stays in an upright posture has evolved a flatter facial design compared to closely related animals that stick to a more standard parallel to the ground posture).

            But, of course, none of that matters. Accurate biology isn't really important to a game about playing dogs that can walk on two legs, wear human style armor, and wield magic swords.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by eddyfate View Post
              [1] Waaaaaay back in the ancient days of AD&D, the book Unearthed Arcana addressed this by introducing a new ability called Comeliness. It never stuck as a core rule, and hasn't really appeared in subsequent editions. However, the fact that there was a perceived mechanical need to reflect physical appearance reinforces that Charisma was never intended to fill that rule.
              AD&D 2nd Edition's Player's Option: Skills & Powers returned to a lot of Unearthed Arcana's concepts. It had a system which divided each of D&D's six Attributes into two sub-Attributes, with the caveat that the two component sub-Attributes had to average in score to the original Attribute and could be separated by no more than four points. So Charisma was subdivided into Leadership and Appearance. If your Charisma was 12, you might have a Leadership of 14 and an Appearance of 10 (or LEA 11 and APP 13 or both 12s or whatever).

              ‚Äč
              Originally posted by Tambov View Post
              I'm not talking about her social abilty. I'm talking about her squashed face preventing her from breathing.
              Eddy's addressed previously that the intent is that the genetic uplifting done to dogs which gave them a bipedal stance, opposable thumbs, intelligence, and vocal cords capable of producing speech, also served to eliminate the genetic frailties of different breeds which has been introduced by decades of inbreeding.

              So Pugmire's pugs can breathe just fine, despite their outward appearance.


              Ian A. A. Watson
              Onyx Path Community Manager

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Tambov View Post
                I'm not talking about her social abilty. I'm talking about her squashed face preventing her from breathing.

                She looks a lot like the pugs I've owned, who have been able to breath for years.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Heavy Arms View Post
                  Actually, as bipedal creatures, brachycephalic dogs would be better adapted to breathing while standing upright than normal muzzle dogs (every mammal that frequently stays in an upright posture has evolved a flatter facial design compared to closely related animals that stick to a more standard parallel to the ground posture).

                  But, of course, none of that matters. Accurate biology isn't really important to a game about playing dogs that can walk on two legs, wear human style armor, and wield magic swords.

                  I was actually thinking just that. BIpedal creatures tend to also develop tool use capabilities and a retreat of tools in the face (i.e. specific teeth). I would be curious to see how that develops with chimps in the coming millenia (gonna miss that sweet sweet evolution) as primatoligists have proven chimps can generate tools for specific needs (read primitive stone tools) and have developed a liking for cooked food vs raw. I think I read somewhere that a particular group of captivity chimps developed fire use, but I may be mistaken.

                  http://www.bbc.com/earth/story/20150...-the-stone-age for relevant information.

                  Seeing this develop in near bipedal great apes, one can infer that bipedal thumb wielding dogs may develop in the same way. Evolutionary advantages would change and thus pugs may be evolutionary advantageous as heavy arms says.

                  Also the heavy science change as mentioned also helps. I don't know that without human tampering if dogs would even go bipedal. They're kinda like sharks in that their body is formed in a particular way to maximize their life capabilities. My dog caught a fat quail earlier today which is something a bipedal likely wouldnt be able to do without tools. If you don't need tools you won't develop the need for it and so they're kinda capped on development in that regard. >.> Same concept can apply to native american technology versus european technology, pyromancy and metal smithing. And now i've gone off on an anthropological tangent.


                  WoD-Dark Eras!! (Backed for Viking Age Werewolf)

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