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[Realms of Pugmire] What Lies Beyond?

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  • [Realms of Pugmire] What Lies Beyond?

    I am curious as to what other groups have put beyond the known borders of the Kingdom of Pugmire and the Monarchies of Mau for their players when they chose to go beyond the edge of what is currently known. What did you put beyond the Northern Mountains or the Eastern Desert? What did you have on the other side of the Acid Sea to the south? What did you put to the west of Pugmire? Just how big did you make the Fearful Forest between Pugmire and the Monarchies?

    I am mostly looking for inspiration as I am hoping to gather a group soon to play this game (probably going to wait until after Pirates of Pugmire is out before starting to get any additional world information it might provide as well; and Player Birds and Lizards would be interesting too). While I know there is a lot to explore in just the areas provided so far, most of the people I game with have ventured beyond the edges of the map in other games... and having a vague idea of these areas helps... so I just want to see what others have come up with for their games.


    There are three types of people in the world... those who can count and those who can't.
    I reject your reality and substitute my own!

  • #2
    Pirates of Pugmire mentions that Lizards comes from great deserts - so some deserts should be in area around Pugmire and Monarchies. In the area of House Angora we have starts of deserts. See below...



    Last edited by wyrdhamster; 08-20-2019, 12:56 AM.


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    • #3
      Yeah... that is what I referred to as the Eastern Desert (since it is east of the Monarchies). Sadly, while there is mention of it in the Angora section of Monarchies of Mau, there is very sparse detail as to what is found within (yes, it looks like a sandy desert from what the map shows, but that is not the only possible terrain that might be found there).

      The same is true about the mountains to the north of both the Monarchies and Pugmire... they are briefly mentioned, but there is very little meat on the scraps provided in the books.

      At least Pirates of Pugmire will reveal a few islands that can be found in the Acid Sea, so it does expand the boundary of the known world a bit, but there is still a lot that has yet to be revealed... and I am curious as to what others have done when their players have ventured beyond the known areas... to places where old maps would say "Here Be Dragons!"

      Hmmm... now there's something I hadn't considered adding to my games... until now.


      There are three types of people in the world... those who can count and those who can't.
      I reject your reality and substitute my own!

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      • #4
        Since there's no cannon answer, the Guide has free reign with crazy and interesting things to put beyond the map. If you're looking for inspiration, I'd recommend looking at a variety of fantasy realm maps, or even real world maps to get some generalities of terrain. For my chronicle, I changed the cannon a bit, and am using google earth for a map, changing where the kingdoms are placed - that gives me a bit more of a firm answer when they go beyond the intended play area.

        Mountains, deserts, and oceans are all natural boundaries between civilizations, though, so it's very likely to have have entire kingdoms of other uplifted (even other Cats and Dogs) which have never been in contact with Pugmire and Mau. They are also landscapes used to contain the most dangerous beasts and ruins in most fiction - so literally placing dragons isn't a bad idea.

        While, as I mentioned, my chronicle is usually a totally different map, I do have a mountain boundary to one side of the kingdoms. I plan on putting some crazy dangerous Ruins of Man in the mountains - former military bases and scientific research centers, places that were extremely well guarded, and fortified enough to still have some functionality in the time of Pugmire. Coatl, greater demons, dragons will all wander the mountains to protect these places.

        If I was using the cannon map, I'd probably put a huge rain forest island / continent south of Acid Sea, where lizards and birds come from, with whole empires swallowed by the jungle, and monstrosities descending from Man's genetic experimentation. Places with overgrown stone ruins (inspired by south east Asia) and inconsistently preserved/ruined structures from the time before.
        ...In fact, I'm probably still going to put that in my chronicle's Acid Sea
        Last edited by Seraph Kitty; 08-20-2019, 05:13 PM.


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        • #5
          Yeah, i did notice a general lack of official information... which is great for making things up as you see fit, but not as great when you need inspiration.

          I did notice that while the Monarchies of Mau cover a vast area of land, the map is a little sparse with details... such as the names of the Capitols of each Monarchy. There are mentions of Mau City (Capitol of Mau) and Port Matthew (largest city in Rex, but not specifically mentioned as the Capitol) and the village of Rosetown are mentioned, but only Rosetown is given a location (but not on the map). Now while this does make it easy for any Guide to place the cities, towns and villages wherever they wish, it does mean that if a more accurate map is officially made that shows the rough locations of cities... and even names them, then it could be... inconvenient for established games.

          That said, I do have an idea I plan on using for the Capitol of Angora (which I am naming Anhk-o'Rah) and will have a very Arabian feel to it... think a cross between Cairo Egypt and Agrabah from Aladdin. I am going to place it along Angora's southern border with Rex (extending one of the tributary rivers that flow into the delta, where I am presuming Port Matthew is located, into this area). It is going to be the last major city in the Monarchies on the land trade route into the Desert to trade with the Lizard Tribes and the main source of trade for such items. I am thinking of having a few more smaller cities along the borders of Cymric, Mau and Siberian, which are also on the edges of the Desert... which acted as deterrents when the Monarchies warred with each other, but it really is the Desert that made Angora a fairly low priority for conquest by the other Monarchies... as they didn't believe the desert held much in the way of exploitable resources (and none of the other Monarchies knew of the vast cave network under Angora at that time). I am also thinking of having a massive pyramid in the desert (guarded by a Shpinx?) that is a place of mystery (and a relic left by the Old Ones) seen by different groups as mystical or sacred (or even cursed and profane).

          Haven't been able to give a lot of thought to the other Monarchies yet, but I am thinking of giving Siberian a very Russian feel (how could I not with that name and the high mountains steppes where they live). Rex is probably going to get an almost British feel to it I think... though Spain might also have some interesting influences too as those two nations were the main naval powers during the Age of Piracy on Earth. Mau is likely to have an almost oriental feel to it, possibly with terraced hills and a thriving bureaucracy to handle the logistics of being the home of the Dynast Council (and thus the heart of the Monarchies). I am tempted to portray Cymric as almost Roman in their road-building and as a the bread-basket for the Monarchies (with the most advanced irrigation and aqueducts of the nation). This leaves Korat as a little difficult to decide upon (though I am inclined towards a more Nordic idea, along the lines of Beowolf and similar warrior kings).

          As for what lays beyond the Acid Sea, I am going to wait to see what Pirates of Pugmire will reveal in that area.

          Finally... I am not sure what to put to the west of Pugmire... as they don't really say much about what lays in that direction. For the Fearful Forest that lays between Pugmire and Korat, I am thinking it will be a very large and dense forest... at least 100 miles from the eastern edge to the western one... requiring a fair amount of time to traverse and why the majority of the fighting durring the War of Cats and Dogs was fought mostly around Waterdog Port (easier to sail around the forest than march through it, giving the Monarchies with a larger fleet of ships a distinct advantage in that respect; though reinforcements for the Dogs was often closer).

          Beyond the mountains to the north will be a blasted wasteland for at least 100 miles. Most of the area will be dominated by monsters and will be one of the main areas that the Unseen dominate (much to the misfortune of the Smilodon), but it is also where a number of ruins from the Ages of Man are located. What lies beyond these badlands is unknown since none who have ventured across them have returned.
          Last edited by Shadowstripe; 08-20-2019, 11:56 PM.


          There are three types of people in the world... those who can count and those who can't.
          I reject your reality and substitute my own!

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          • #6
            Shadowstripe, I very like your ideas! Will steal some from you and add few my here.

            Originally posted by Shadowstripe View Post
            I did notice that while the Monarchies of Mau cover a vast area of land, the map is a little sparse with details... such as the names of the Capitols of each Monarchy.
            I always assumed that as Monarchies and their Dynasts were separate kingdoms, than each Great House Capitol is simply named by the ‘<House> + Castle’. So we have Castle Rex, Castle Mau, Castle Angora as names for those cities, just like in Game of Thrones.

            Pirates of Pugmire is pointing Port Matthew as other big city in Rex territory.

            Originally posted by Shadowstripe View Post
            That said, I do have an idea I plan on using for the Capitol of Angora (which I am naming Anhk-o'Rah) and will have a very Arabian feel to it... think a cross between Cairo Egypt and Agrabah from Aladdin.
            I very like your idea of making House Angora as Egypt-like & Arabian-like country. 8-) Funny is that House Mau, from what game is named, was added to it to give it stronger roots to Egypt cats. From devs & Eddy’s posts I remember that Monarchies of Mau, as whole multi-kingdom, are to be based on cultures of Renaissance Italy and Germany with China and Japanese overtones, where Pugmire is stylized to late medieval England. I would based Kingdoms and Houses areas on this cultures:
            • Angora – Hellenistic Egypt – it’s nice jive with Library of Alexandria
            • Cymric – Renaissance Italy - after Romans road building
            • Korat – Renaissance Germany - Historical Germany was under great influence of Black Forest, like Korat is under Fearful Forest.
            • Mau – Renaissance Italy
            • Pugmire - Late Medieval England
            • Rex – Renaissance Spain
            • Siberian – Russian and Scotland Highlanders
            Last edited by wyrdhamster; 08-25-2019, 02:03 AM.


            My stuff for Scion 2E, CoD Contagion, Dark Eras, VtR 2E, WtF 2E, MtAw 2E & BtP
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            • #7
              I had thought about having each of the Monarchies with their House name as the for their capitol, as it is the way with House Mau (Mau City), but since Port Matthew is the largest city in the Rex Monarchy, it is most likely the capitol... with House Rex's Castle being there (since it is likely the oldest city too).

              While I did want to base many of the Monarchies around Europe, Africa and Asia also venerate cats as well... Egypt, China and Japan especially (at least historically). Plus the Wanderer Class is very much an Asian style Martial Artist. So after thinking about it a bit more, I am going with a slightly different inspiration for my takes on these areas.

              Angora - Very Egyptian/Middle East feel... and maybe even have a lot of statues of important Cats that have influenced the Monarchy.
              Cymric - Republican Rome... before they became an Empire under Caesar.
              Korat - Imperial Japan... as they have a strong warrior culture that would fit nicely in the setting (Samurai Cats and Ninja Cats fighting along the edge of the forest? Hell yeah!).
              Mau - Imperial China... as the heart of the Monarchies (and Mau does have an Asian feel to the name, despite being more closely linked to Egypt and will be where the Wander Class likely originates. The bureaucracies of China also seem to be a good fit for the nation.
              Rex - Spain, though more of the Imperial Spain that influenced the Caribbean ports (and less on the Inquisition, though I may add that at some point).
              Siberian - Tsarian Russia... need i say more about this?

              Pugmire - England, with Houndton being almost Scottish and Mutt Town being very Irish (as long as you leave us alone, we leave you alone) and Waterdog Port being something along the lines of a free port (maybe like an American post-revolution town/city?).

              The islands that will be in the Pirates of Pugmire will likely have a very Caribbean feel to them.

              Regardless of the rough eras these areas will be influenced by, they will have very similar levels of technology due to the overall trade of such things in the setting.

              Still not sure what I will be putting to the west of Pugmire... the map mostly shows plains (though it doesn't show much to be honest). I was thinking maybe a vast crevasse... Grand Canyon style (or the Gap for those familiar with the Xanth novel setting) and could lead to an area where there are huge stone towers where bird tribes have roosted (and maybe the source or inspired by their Sky Kingdom legend). Could also be a good place for "dragons" that may have forced the Birds out of the area (just throwing ideas out here now).

              The tunnels that run under Angora (and possibly the rest of the Monarchies) might not be natural in origin, but are the remnants of a vast underground network of tunnels that Mankind once made for some reason (subway-like transport or sewage removal are good candidates but not the only possibilities). Still thinking of putting a vast Pyramid in the desert beyond Angora's border, a mystery to dangle before Cat-Players like a string of yarn and see if they pounce on it. Not sure what it was for, but is likely taken over by dark forces (maybe even several... it could be a vast Undermountain-like dungeon even... with all sorts of dangers to uncover... and unleash).

              I am thinking of working on home-brewed stats for the Badger tribes (and maybe even port some 5th Ed classes, more rustic ones like druids and shaman-like) for them to play... with their main area of influence being in the Fearful Forest and Northern Mountains... and maybe even come up with a campaign around Kibu the Red uniting the Tribes to create their own kingdom (possibly at the expense of the Cats and Dogs living on either side of the Forest). I may even have Kibu being possessed by the Unseen and working with Unseen in both the Friends of Man and the Seekers of Ubaste, yet all reporting to the Unseen King north of the Mountains (possibly imprisoned and using his minions to bring about his release into the world... where the Unseen will no longer need to hide).

              So many possibilities... need to get back to working on them!


              There are three types of people in the world... those who can count and those who can't.
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              • #8
                Rex City is the capital. Port Matthew is a very large and prosperous city, but it isn’t the capital, nor is it necessarily the oldest city. Of course, if you want to make it that way for your games, you’re welcome to do so.


                Jason Ross Inczauskis, Freelance Writer
                Projects: Dark Eras 2, Mummy: The Curse 2e, Pirates of Pugmire, TC In Media Res, DtD Night Horrors: Enemy Action, C20 Anthology of Dreams
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                • #9
                  What page is Rex City mentioned on and in which book? I have found only 2 references to cities in Monarchies... Mau City and Port Matthew. I have found mention of a capital in Angora, Cymric and Siberian, but not a name for them. I am still fairly new to the setting (only have the Pugmire and Monarchies Core books) and will not turn down additional resources.

                  That said, I am reluctant to accept books published under Open Licencing due to the fact that those who write such sources do not always make an effort to keep their writing in line with other writings (they are as likely to contradict each other as to complement them). I have also noticed a trend in many other games where groups tend to accept what a large number of others do as canon, even when there is no source for it. I find the idea that each Monarchy having chosen to name their Capitals after the Houses (and the Monarchies themselves in a similar fashion) to be a rather simplistic and cliche trope in fantasy (and one that I am glad has fallen out of fashion in most settings). Until I see more evidence in the books that this is the case with the Monarchies, I will continue as I am under the idea that Mau City is unique as a Capital of the Monarchy with the same name and seat of power for House Mau.

                  Cats, as a rule, are rather individualistic... and I find it hard to imagine that all 6 Monarchies would follow the same tradition with their Capitals, especially since they couldn't agree on a lot of other things. Besides, Capitals tend to be the most influential cities in an area... which means that even if there is a Rex City, and even if it is older than Port Matthew, the size and influence of Port Matthew has likely eclipsed it in importance to the Monarchy of Rex... effectively usurping the prestige of being the Monarchy Capital in all but name due to its importance as a gateway for trade. Being the practical house that it is, House Rex seeing that the other Houses are dealing through Port Mathew more than any other city in the Monarchy would likely move the capital to Port Matthew officially to take advantage of the situation. This happened a lot in the Ancient world when trade routes changed and new cities grew in importance to eclipse former capitals in a given nation. True, some cities would have enough traditions and influence to maintain their status (and even use clandestine means to hold on to power), but only the most powerful would be able to hold out against progress... and House Rex's acceptance of many into their ranks would undermine this sort of posturing. New blood willing to take risks and gain prestige can quickly surpass and overwhelm older bloodlines that refuse to keep up with the times. In short, while Rex City (if there is such a city) might have once been the capital of Rex, Port Matthew's growing fortune and influence has likely made it The Capital of Rex... at least for now (and likely to the dismay of some who resent the upstart city).


                  There are three types of people in the world... those who can count and those who can't.
                  I reject your reality and substitute my own!

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                  • #10
                    Rex City is mentioned in Pirates of Pugmire, as is the history of Port Matthew. While Port Matthew isn’t the capital, it is quite the resource for the Monarchy of Rex. It doesn’t need to be the capital, either, even if one assumes it to be the wealthiest city. As a real world example, Chicago definitely has more wealth and a larger population than Springfield, but the latter is still the capital of Illinois. That said, if you want to make Port Matthew the capital of Rex for your games, feel free to do so. Having fun is the most important thing, and the setting can easily tweaked to make it work how you’d like. If you’re wanting to stick to canon, though, Port Matthew is detailed in Pirates of Pugmire, along with its government.


                    Jason Ross Inczauskis, Freelance Writer
                    Projects: Dark Eras 2, Mummy: The Curse 2e, Pirates of Pugmire, TC In Media Res, DtD Night Horrors: Enemy Action, C20 Anthology of Dreams
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                    • #11
                      Side note: I still find much more evocative idea to call Port Matthew as it's original name - City of Bridges. I know they rename it for one of 'admirals-defenders' of it, but original name is just much more cool and gives ready descriptions.
                      Last edited by wyrdhamster; 08-26-2019, 02:34 AM.


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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by wyrdhamster View Post
                        Side note: I still find much more evocative idea to call Port Matthew as it's original name - City of Bridges. I know they rename it for one of 'admirals-defenders' of it, but original name is just much more cool and gives ready descriptions.
                        I’m glad that you like the name.


                        Jason Ross Inczauskis, Freelance Writer
                        Projects: Dark Eras 2, Mummy: The Curse 2e, Pirates of Pugmire, TC In Media Res, DtD Night Horrors: Enemy Action, C20 Anthology of Dreams
                        Masculine pronouns preferred.

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                        • #13
                          As we are on subject - HOW BIG are Monarchies? Like how many days you need to spend riding on horse to get from south end to north end of Korat lands? How long takes it to border from Korat to Siberian on mountain range?
                          Last edited by wyrdhamster; 08-26-2019, 11:04 AM.


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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by wyrdhamster View Post
                            As we are on subject - HOW BIG are Monarchies? Like how many days you need to spend riding on horse to get from south end to north end of Korat lands? How long takes it to border from Korat to Siberian on mountain range?
                            How big do you want them? What’s best for your game? The maps are set up to allow people to put their own details into the setting.


                            Jason Ross Inczauskis, Freelance Writer
                            Projects: Dark Eras 2, Mummy: The Curse 2e, Pirates of Pugmire, TC In Media Res, DtD Night Horrors: Enemy Action, C20 Anthology of Dreams
                            Masculine pronouns preferred.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by White Oak Dragon View Post
                              How big do you want them? What’s best for your game?
                              However, it's inconsistency in the setting. Pirates of Pugmire put's direct travel times on it's map of Acid Sea:
                              'Here’s roughly how long it takes to sail from one of the ports to each of these areas.
                              • A week’s sailing between Waterdog Port and Port Matthew
                              • Dalmatian Cove: Two weeks to Waterdog Port; 10 days to Port Matthew
                              • Stormheart: Varies, but at least two weeks
                              • Hopewell: Five days from Port Matthew, a week from Waterdog Port
                              • Beacon: Five days from Waterdog Port, nine days from Port Matthew
                              • The Trio: Six days from Waterdog Port, eight days from Port Matthew
                              • The Aerie: Nine days from either port
                              • The Shift: Fifteen days from Waterdog Port, Eighteen days from Port Matthew'

                              Seeing how crossing whole Acid Sea is 15-18 days, I would assume that whole area of one Monarchy should not be larger than 7 days of travel. But it's just my fan approximation.
                              Last edited by wyrdhamster; 08-26-2019, 11:05 AM.


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