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[Ex3] Fivefold Shadow Hand & White Veil Style

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  • [Ex3] Fivefold Shadow Hand & White Veil Style

    Has anyone attempted to convert either style to Ex3 rules? I've always liked the back story behind the Five Shade Association and the White Veil Society. I would like to include them into Ex3 but without their Iconic MA it would be less engaging. I could just use Black Claw and and Dreaming Pearl Styles for the White Veil Society, and Ebon Shadow and Snake Styles for the Five Shades Association but again, that would be less engaging.


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  • #2
    Honestly, I think it might be best to use extent styles like Dreaming Pearl Courtesan, Black Claw or Ebon Shadow to do the Five Shades Associaiton. Mostly since the style isn't really a "style" but a grab bag of random effects squished together for a weird Charm tree structure and Naruta-like Onmyoudo hand gestures. It was, at least to me, a terrible style attached to an otherwise pretty cool group.

    And stuff.


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    • #3
      I honestly really liked Fivefold Shadow Hand. I thought its structure was wonderfully funky and the theming and effects were really cool.

      ...But, if I'm being really honest, it just doesn't fit Exalted. At least, not as a MA style. Maybe some kind of artifact or an exaltation or something weirder, but it is just a little too unthematic for an Exalted MA style.


      And now I'm thinking of some kind of demon binding tattoos that can be used to fuse a mortal with a First Circle Demon and grant them shadow ninja powers or whatever, and a First Age Artifact tattooing needle that lets people do this without being Exalted themselves.
      Last edited by BrilliantRain; 12-15-2016, 02:40 AM.


      ....

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      • #4
        Fivefold Shadow Hands is actually Ithink a neat setup for some sort of Exigent or even weird just...thing out there that generates odd ninja super soldiers who aren't really Exalted but aren't really mortals anymore. But yeah, as a MA style it's odd since to me, it's a tad "meta". it exists in fluff almost as a wa to justify its Charms. It's about the weird tree structure first, with what it's a style of kind of secondary to that. And again, the Charms have this "grab bag of powers" dealie going that doesn't do a lot to sell me on it. The idea of adapting it in some form, just not as a MA style, si not terrible I think.

        And stuff.


        And stuff.
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        • #5
          Originally posted by Blaque View Post
          Honestly, I think it might be best to use extent styles like Dreaming Pearl Courtesan, Black Claw or Ebon Shadow to do the Five Shades Associaiton. Mostly since the style isn't really a "style" but a grab bag of random effects squished together for a weird Charm tree structure and Naruta-like Onmyoudo hand gestures. It was, at least to me, a terrible style attached to an otherwise pretty cool group.

          And stuff.
          The hand gestures go back much further than Naruto as far as anime goes, and I think the claim that it doesn't fit exalted is debatable. However that's not the point of this thread. I'm looking for someone's translation if it exists and if not then possibly to collaborate.


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          • #6
            A lot of TMAs are basically functional in Ex3. Just be on the side of caution with scene-length effects (Infinite Mastery baaaad) and use common sense with adapting 2e mechanics to their 3e equivalent- paying particular attention to withering vs decisive.

            It won't be great... I have vague ideas for Terrestrial keywords and no idea at all for what's appropriate for Mastery, but it'll be a start.


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            • #7
              Originally posted by Lioness View Post
              A lot of TMAs are basically functional in Ex3. Just be on the side of caution with scene-length effects (Infinite Mastery baaaad) and use common sense with adapting 2e mechanics to their 3e equivalent- paying particular attention to withering vs decisive.

              It won't be great... I have vague ideas for Terrestrial keywords and no idea at all for what's appropriate for Mastery, but it'll be a start.
              I've thought about this too, I'll put some work to it if I haven't found someone that taken a stab at it by this weekend.


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              • #8
                Originally posted by BrilliantRain View Post
                I honestly really liked Fivefold Shadow Hand. I thought its structure was wonderfully funky and the theming and effects were really cool.

                ...But, if I'm being really honest, it just doesn't fit Exalted. At least, not as a MA style. Maybe some kind of artifact or an exaltation or something weirder, but it is just a little too unthematic for an Exalted MA style.


                And now I'm thinking of some kind of demon binding tattoos that can be used to fuse a mortal with a First Circle Demon and grant them shadow ninja powers or whatever, and a First Age Artifact tattooing needle that lets people do this without being Exalted themselves.
                Tattoo magic ala Rifts?


                Craft rewrite.
                Twitter Handle: at maudovajr

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                • #9
                  I'm with Blaque and BrilliantRain on FFSH - it's not that it doesn't fit in with Exalted, it's that it barely fit in with 2e Martial Arts, and completely fails to fit in as a 3e Martial Art. The coolest thing about FFSH was that you had these ninja clans practicing anime-style ninja magic. It only worked in 2e because these clans could be composed of enlightened mortals, able to deliver on the "magic" part of the ninja magic. In 3e, mortal practitioners of a Martial Art don't get to do magic, they just learn a mundane fighting technique that only becomes magical when practiced properly by a native Essence-user.

                  I would strongly suggest reimagining the Five Shade Association as... something. Maybe they're a God-Blooded offspring of a shadow-themed deity/demon/raksha. Maybe they're a sort of Exigents that breed not unlike the Dragon-Blooded. Maybe it's just that for reasons unknown, everyone in Narutoville, Scavenger Lands can learn to awaken their Essence and learn ninja magic. Whatever suits you best. The point is, they'll work much better in 3e as a "minor splat", if you will, than they do work as part of Creation's kung fu scene.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Morangias View Post
                    I'm with Blaque and BrilliantRain on FFSH - it's not that it doesn't fit in with Exalted, it's that it barely fit in with 2e Martial Arts, and completely fails to fit in as a 3e Martial Art. The coolest thing about FFSH was that you had these ninja clans practicing anime-style ninja magic. It only worked in 2e because these clans could be composed of enlightened mortals, able to deliver on the "magic" part of the ninja magic. In 3e, mortal practitioners of a Martial Art don't get to do magic, they just learn a mundane fighting technique that only becomes magical when practiced properly by a native Essence-user.

                    I would strongly suggest reimagining the Five Shade Association as... something. Maybe they're a God-Blooded offspring of a shadow-themed deity/demon/raksha. Maybe they're a sort of Exigents that breed not unlike the Dragon-Blooded. Maybe it's just that for reasons unknown, everyone in Narutoville, Scavenger Lands can learn to awaken their Essence and learn ninja magic. Whatever suits you best. The point is, they'll work much better in 3e as a "minor splat", if you will, than they do work as part of Creation's kung fu scene.
                    I think of the FFSA could exist as a lost egg type dragon blooded family spread out along the threashold and beyond. I imagine it as a house Iselsi project that was co-opted by a Gold Faction Endings or Secrets sidereal post disgrace.


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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Maudova View Post

                      The hand gestures go back much further than Naruto as far as anime goes, and I think the claim that it doesn't fit exalted is debatable. However that's not the point of this thread. I'm looking for someone's translation if it exists and if not then possibly to collaborate.
                      Oh I'm aware. It's why I note the Onmyoudou stuff, which is where it gets it from. Those are super appropriate for Exalted since they're a form of fancy mudra. Just that, again, these aren't really what Martial Arts even are in 3e, since they're not inherently magical and the magic that the Charms had in 2e had no rhyme or rason for anything considered a fighting style. They'd be something else entirely, really.

                      And stuff.


                      And stuff.
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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Maudova View Post

                        I think of the FFSA could exist as a lost egg type dragon blooded family spread out along the threashold and beyond. I imagine it as a house Iselsi project that was co-opted by a Gold Faction Endings or Secrets sidereal post disgrace.
                        I actually more or less used them more as an international crime syndicate than the MA style source. The Five Clans were all over the Threshold, and were the result of a combination of Shogunate Era dispossessed/ronin banding together to form the new organization and making aname for themselves after the Contagion. With lots of neat Triad symbology, quotiing the 1,000 Correct Actions and in 2e, inner circles who would get elevated MAs abilities and practice sneaky master styles like Throne Shadow or Ebon Shadow.

                        No need for Sidereal co-option even. Money is money for them, and they're Immaculate-enough to themselves, even if they make overtly heretical deals with elementals and gods with the excuse that as the Dragon-Blooded, they get to arrange the cults.

                        "Put a little shrine in your shop, cost you just a bit of silver. And then every month, you just put a bit there and during the week, light some incense. We'll watch your shop, nobody gets hurt, and we get a bit of profit for our friend. Get rid of the shrine, well, he'll be upset. Don't want that. And remember, these ain't free. So be sure to keep it in good condition and where we can see them. Have a godo one. Stay safe."

                        And stuff.


                        And stuff.
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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Blaque View Post
                          Oh I'm aware. It's why I note the Onmyoudou stuff, which is where it gets it from. Those are super appropriate for Exalted since they're a form of fancy mudra. Just that, again, these aren't really what Martial Arts even are in 3e, since they're not inherently magical and the magic that the Charms had in 2e had no rhyme or rason[sic] for anything considered a fighting style. They'd be something else entirely, really.

                          And stuff.


                          Agreed 100% it fails as a “fighting art” I am trying to reimagine it as a mystical art to supplement MA like Snake, Ebon Shadow, and Tiger Style. I’ll get to the mechanic of that a little later (Homebrew).

                          Originally posted by Blaque View Post
                          I actually more or less used them more as an international crime syndicate than the MA style source. The Five Clans were all over the Threshold, and were the result of a combination of Shogunate Era dispossessed/ronin banding together to form the new organization and making aname for themselves after the Contagion. With lots of neat Triad symbology, quotiing[sic] the 1,000 Correct Actions and in 2e, inner circles who would get elevated MAs abilities and practice sneaky master styles like Throne Shadow or Ebon Shadow.


                          I like the idea that the 1,000 correct actions be thrown in there to help give a more martial feel to the whole of the organization. I’ll be using that.

                          Originally posted by Blaque View Post
                          No need for Sidereal co-option even. Money is money for them, and they're Immaculate-enough to themselves, even if they make overtly heretical deals with elementals and gods with the excuse that as the Dragon-Blooded, they get to arrange the cults.

                          "Put a little shrine in your shop, cost you just a bit of silver. And then every month, you just put a bit there and during the week, light some incense. We'll watch your shop, nobody gets hurt, and we get a bit of profit for our friend. Get rid of the shrine, well, he'll be upset. Don't want that. And remember, these ain't free. So be sure to keep it in good condition and where we can see them. Have a godo one. Stay safe."

                          And stuff.


                          I disagree with the lack of sidereal co-op but I’ll get into that in another post when I get all my thoughts together.

                          Originally posted by Lioness
                          A lot of TMAs are basically functional in Ex3. Just be on the side of caution with scene-length effects (Infinite Mastery baaaad) and use common sense with adapting 2e mechanics to their 3e equivalent- paying particular attention to withering vs decisive.

                          It won't be great... I have vague ideas for Terrestrial keywords and no idea at all for what's appropriate for Mastery, but it'll be a start.


                          I am actually putting the puzzle pieces together for the Terrestrial and Mastery Keywords. The MA as written was of course a TMA, right. So leave the elemental affinity of the MA with the Terrestrial Keyword, then expand the base charms to include non-elemental spirits such as ghosts and gods, and Mastery effects include all spirits (demons etc.).

                          There would have to a slight rearrangement of essence requirements because having a single charm available as essence one isn’t really that interesting for someone and this MA (or whatever you want to call it) will be something characters might base some of their character progression around.



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                          • #14
                            Terrestrial and Mastery aren't really statements the same way that some 2e keywords were. From what I've discerned from Terrestrial effects Dragon-Blooded have less access to multiple actions in the same round and certain forms of defence. I'd strongly suggest converting the style first and worry about it's functionality in the hands of different splats later.


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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Lioness View Post
                              Terrestrial and Mastery aren't really statements the same way that some 2e keywords were. From what I've discerned from Terrestrial effects Dragon-Blooded have less access to multiple actions in the same round and certain forms of defence. I'd strongly suggest converting the style first and worry about it's functionality in the hands of different splats later.
                              FFSH conversion is actually pretty easy as it's combat effects are overly simple and nothing in the MA is all that flashy. I haven't started on WV yet, but they have some pretty simple effects as well. My larger project is retooling the way the Five Shade Association works.


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