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  • Originally posted by Totentanz View Post

    I would hope the same. Nothing is more boring than a pack of murder hobos ignoring the "normal" society around them because they think they are unstoppable unless something "worthy" reveals itself.

    Traveling in a land built to hunt and destroy people like you should be challenging, even before other Exalts get involved (and of course they will need to).
    ​There's that, but I'm also thinking about a satrapies society and economy being portrayed in a manner that should... inspire a Storyteller to present them as challenging, and adjudicate the process of their being undone.

    A lot of people living in severe debt, of one kind or another.


    I have approximate knowledge of many things.
    Watch me play Dark Souls III (completed)
    https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLDtbr08HW8RW4jOHN881YA3yRZBV4lpYw Watch me play Breath of the Wild (updated 12/03)

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    • Originally posted by hippokrene View Post

      Why are cows scary?
      ​Don't kid yourself Jimmy; if a cow ever got the chance, he's eat you and everyone you care about.


      I have approximate knowledge of many things.
      Watch me play Dark Souls III (completed)
      https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLDtbr08HW8RW4jOHN881YA3yRZBV4lpYw Watch me play Breath of the Wild (updated 12/03)

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      • EDIT: Nevermind. I encourage everyone to remember that this is a human enterprise and that the people involved are not interchangeable parts who can be swapped out, nor should they be. Please treat people like people.

        As loathe as I am to say it, it's not just a matter of principle. If you want to change how they do it, maybe you could, but you're not gonna get the product you were hoping for that way. A changing industry wasn't the only thing that killed White Wolf before.
        Last edited by Leetsepeak; 01-17-2017, 03:06 AM.


        I am no longer participating in the community. Please do not contact me about my previous work.

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        • Originally posted by Leetsepeak View Post
          EDIT: Nevermind. I encourage everyone to remember that this is a human enterprise and that the people involved are not interchangeable parts who can be swapped out, nor should they be. Please treat people like people.

          As loathe as I am to say it, it's not just a matter of principle. If you want to change how they do it, maybe you could, but you're not gonna get the product you were hoping for that way. A changing industry wasn't the only thing that killed White Wolf before.
          I don't want to seem like I am minimizing the contribution the Devs have made to Exalted, they have produced a truly uniqe and interesting system that only they could have made in its current incarnation. But that doesn't mean that they are the be all and end all of Exalted, someone could certainly come in now and help to build upon this solid foundation they have established. I absolutely don't think they are replaceable as participants in the development of EX3, but does the entire gameline need to be borne on their shoulders and massaged by their hands, in my mind no, in fact I think they and the gameline have probably suffered for the fact it does.

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          • Originally posted by Lucy Darling View Post

            Negative and oh my god man, the hyperbole.

            Evocations in some form. It was likely for Arms (Holden mentioned it on twitter, for the curious). And yes, after the way 2016 went for them

            (Redacted because I am tired of offering up personal trauma to plead for more humane treatment of the Devs and the writers, y'all can look it up if you want, I am not repeating myself)

            Yeah, there are still things being written and rewritten and worked out.

            It'll get there. I appreciate the excitement but this is the exact kind of negative reaction to one single sentence of update that makes me want to retreat to my mother's farm and raise cows.

            (Note: last week I screamed and threw my phone across the room because there was a tiny spider on it and I once got trapped in my car because I am scared of cows, just to illustrate how not-lucy-suitable a cow farm hermitage is)
            Yeah the farming life is spiders for days. Not often big, but very often in places spiders ought not be.

            I think just what made it hit hard is I don't know the devs personally so I didn't know there was a problem, I just knew Arms was about 80 pages and been in development for a year and a half at least, and after hearing that much work had been done behind the scenes I was expecting the next announcement for it to be "getting art for Arms! Expect it by spring" and instead it looks like I won't see it until at least late summer. It isn't that the developers getting yet another pillar of their life shattered on them isn't a good reason to halt writing for a bit, it's just that feeling of walking down stairs in the dark and expecting floor when you got another step. Especially with what that implies for the other books in the lineup.

            At the same time I kind of wish there was another way because for one it really sucks to have so much demanded of you when your life is in turmoil, trust me I know I seriously screwed up something major in my life that I'll never get a chance to redo because of stuff like that. And for another the game line is really crawling along. Again, really really not saying "it's crawling along...thanks to those lazy dicks doing the writing!" But the core was released two years ago*, miracles last year, and this year maybe just Arms since editing and layout and art all take so long. Especially since the art is all colour and unless you are or know an artist you have no idea how much more work that entails. I also know Holden and Morke aren't replaceable, but if they stopped being able to do work altogether the game wouldn't die, I just keep feeling like there must be some way to share the load more or something.

            *as a nitpick technically the public release was last year but thousands of people all for their copies the year before and little of substance was changed for the final release.

            Edit: I also wouldn't care this much if I didn't love exalted so much that hearing "sorry we need to push back Arms another year." Feels like hearing "sorry, we need to push back the 2020 election another year." Keeping in mind I don't live in the US so that's not quite as extreme as it sounds.
            Last edited by DrLoveMonkey; 01-17-2017, 04:00 AM.

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            • The problem with asking people on a joint project to share the load with a third is kinda the problem of, well, Brooks's Law. The act of adding people to a project delays the project, especially since you're adding people not at the start but right at the end of the middle of their work. And well, look, I really get that you love exalted, we all do, but the devs really are people in all sense of that word. I'm saying this as someone that's recently helped a friend of theirs with a lot of grief and that shit really really ruins you. Things have gotten better, but even a year and a half later it's not uncommon to notice all the things missing and stuff like that. Saying it's a hard time is an understatement.

              Now, I am not saying you're a bad person, but take a moment to just well, let it sink in what is happening. It does end up looking pretty petty when we feel frustrated over a game being delayed a few months in comparison to that, and well, it's a sign that you should take a moment for yourself and try to spend it in a constructive way that helps channel that frustrations out instead of dwelling on this. Trust me, it's going to be easier than trying to get the game line moving faster.

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              • Originally posted by hippokrene View Post
                Wait... you're scared of cows?

                Why are cows scary?
                The #1 human-killer among the domesticated members of the animal kingdom? Cows. Don't underestimate an animal that weighs ten times as much as you, is armed with hooves and horns, and has enough muscle behind its kick to snap a man's thighbone like a rotten branch.

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                • Originally posted by Lucy Darling View Post
                  Okay, so I have done this spiel before, forgive me for the succinctness but...
                  Hi Lucy, thanks for the update! I'm always happy to hear about forward movement on what has become my favorite roleplaying game. (At least for now; it's hard to stick with a favorite of anything if it's not in a narrow category.)


                  Check out my RPG podcast: The Story Told
                  Follow my ongoing Exalted Campaign: An Imperfect Circle

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                  • Also worth noting that, despite the way we're talking about it, being attentive to the sparing posts and interviews that the developers have done pretty clearly indicates to me that work is being done, and has been getting done for some time in spite of tragedy! Writing never really halted, there's just only so many hours in a day.

                    I'm eager as anyone else for new books. I see a lot of Exalted discussion in various places, and as others have elaborated upon earlier in the thread, we're being a little overblown in how "stagnant" the line is compared to previous editions, and the leak is compounding that bias.

                    I think some of the best stuff we can do in the meantime is continue to provide resources to one another, workshop eachother's stuff, share what's going on in your games and just be patient. It'll come. When it does, we'll be refreshed, I'm sure the devs will be excited, and we can all move forward feeling good.

                    Thanks again for the emotional labor, Lucy. I know it's not in the job description, but it is appreciated.


                    I am no longer participating in the community. Please do not contact me about my previous work.

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                    • Originally posted by Lucy Darling View Post
                      Okay, so I have done this spiel before, forgive me for the succinctness but - the Devs are dealing with the death of a family member, the damage that does to every single aspect of your life when an integral member of your household dies after almost a decade of battling cancer. That sort of thing doesn't just...go away (I saw her favourite chocolate today and had a stab of grief and I never met the woman, I just know her through the devs). That isn't even touching on things like money or other work or personal illness. Be kind, be understanding, and we are likely to work it out in the end. When every single preview I have seen has had at least three people calling it 'the end of the game line' or evidence of some enormous personal failing of the Devs, or inherently unbalanced (with nothing known about the system...), it gets difficult to justify why this is integral to the process.
                      So I wanna state again that the thread was intended not to address the pace of the book releases, but rather just the order! I feel strategical rescheduling may lessen some of the delay angst.

                      Cancer seriously sucks. My dad died of cancer just last year. His funeral was amazing - he had planned everything out in a really morbid, terribly depressing booklet that I would have told him never to write when he was alive but was like an angel guiding us after the event. I was so grateful to him for that. But that said... it is 2016... I got two weeks off from my job, and my employer thought that was generous (and I got mighty stink-eye and passive aggressiveness). I was told this was a 'huge favor'.

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                      • The other thing I wanna reiterate is that there is a huge difference between other players, STs, and fans doing the critiques and workshopping stuff and me or a Dev or another writer doing it. We don't wanna tell you that you're playing wrong! And any critique kinda does that (and if it's a rule thing then there's also 'you wrote it wrong' as the best, and outright accusations about personal character at worst). It tends to crush more creativity and enthusiasm than inspire it.

                        As the Monday notes said - schedule is shifting, and I don't know what that will look like either. Unless we are having a work meeting, we often shy away from discussing work stuff in favour of pretend nerf fights, personal drama, game design in general, or our other hobbies. I do know that there hasn't been a point where they stopped working. Holden was here, answering questions, the week afterwards. There is a LOT of work you don't see (like after the Backer release there was still a lot of work to get it to public, even if you didn't see the changes yourself).

                        I do have a suggestion though - we don't go trawling through threads so if you have a question that nobody else on the forum has been able to answer, send me a PM and I will have a looksee. No guarantees, but first stop should be here with the other fans because there are more of you than there are of us! And you all have a lot of passion for the game and a genuine desire to help each other (mostly). And chances are someone else has had the same thought process, or can walk you through an answer.


                        ". ... for me, the transformative power of art is you are not above the material." -= Guillermo del Toro

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                        • (But thanks everyone for restoring my faith a little - I was anxious to come back and check the thread so it was good to see so much support, including more evidence of cows being terrifying)

                          (And bereavement leave sucks everywhere - I was 'lucky' and could take extended unpaid leave when my best friend died a bit over a year ago but most of that was also child wrangling on school holidays and it only has just started feeling like a new normal to not have her there)


                          ". ... for me, the transformative power of art is you are not above the material." -= Guillermo del Toro

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                          • Originally posted by Lucy Darling View Post

                            They are really big and the breed my mother raises have horns and they KNOW I have enjoyed their brethren on burgers. They just know.

                            Mostly just that they're really big and I am much squishier. And ma's cows are not scared of people at all and will have a go at the car if they get grumpy.
                            My only action with cows has been with some friendly, hornless dairy cows. They're still 1,000+ pounds, but they were pretty chill.

                            Yes, I understand how meeting up with cows who'll have a go at a car would be different.

                            Originally posted by TheCountAlucard View Post
                            The #1 human-killer among the domesticated members of the animal kingdom? Cows. Don't underestimate an animal that weighs ten times as much as you, is armed with hooves and horns, and has enough muscle behind its kick to snap a man's thighbone like a rotten branch.
                            Some years it's cows, some years it's dogs.

                            Of course, dogs are far more populous and integrated into human society.


                            Come and rock me Amadeus.

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                            • Originally posted by hippokrene View Post
                              Some years it's cows, some years it's dogs.
                              Some years dogs turn to the use of firearms to help them win the competition - the cows argue that this is unfair, but cats make for capricious judges, so the cows just have to soldier on.

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                              • Originally posted by TheCountAlucard View Post
                                The #1 human-killer among the domesticated members of the animal kingdom? Cows. Don't underestimate an animal that weighs ten times as much as you, is armed with hooves and horns, and has enough muscle behind its kick to snap a man's thighbone like a rotten branch.
                                And dumb enough to neither notice nor care when it's crushing you

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