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  • satoshi
    replied
    I must admit it is coming out way too slowly for my tastes. The core is only a starting point, and doesn't contain enough adversaries by itself, so unless your campaign focuses on fighting other solars (or abyssals) you run out of enemy statblocks pretty quick. What I really want is a storyteller's guide equivalent advice for how to fake the various exalted types until their actual books come out.

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  • Protector152
    replied
    I think it comes down to economy of scale and how deadlines are handeled.

    White Wolf had at least one full time team working on Exalted, Maybe even one team per book. On top of that, my understanding is that they set the deadline and the team always hit it, even it it ment that the book had virtually no Quality Control.

    On the other hand Onyx Path has maybe three full time staff, everyone else is freelance so they have to do other work to pay the bills. Their attitude to deadlines seems to be that as long as the game is the best it can be then Deadlines don't matter as much

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  • Blaque
    replied
    I think it's worth noting that save for the WoD 20A lines, it seems to me that the games from Onyx Path in general are pretty slow. You can see this with the piepline of some books being in development for a while, like Secrets of the Covenants coming out a while ago. And I don't remember when was the last I heard on anything in the works for Werewolf: the Forsaken for a while now. Scion and Trinity wre first announced around the same time as Exalted 3e, but the KS for Scion was just this year and we still haven't seen Trinity yet.

    I think there is at least to some extent factors of bandwidth there at work. Plus general factors of the gameline having Wraith-level misfortune happen to the devs at times it seems if one keeps track on that bit.

    And stuff.

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  • HighPriest
    replied
    The thing that really bugs me about Ex3's schedule so far is that we haven't even seen a Tomb of Five Corners analog yet. A quickstart adventure doesn't seem like a particularly hard product to get out the door quickly (it requires no new assets, no new rules, and relatively little in the way of new writing), possibly even day and date with the rule set, and really helps try to sell a complicated system to new players. I know that a beginner adventure wasn't available right away for 1st edition either, but man it sure helped me sell people on 2nd.

    Also, I have the suspicion that hopes for one big splat per year is excessively optimistic. I sure hope to be proven wrong on this, but I'd be surprised if we saw DBs in 2017. As a frame of reference, 3E core's mostly completed text entered editing in September of 2014, about 18 months before it became available for sale. Maybe Dragon-Bloods will go way smoother in the editing/art/post production areas, but the fact that it hasn't reached that stage yet feels like a bad sign. To avoid disappointment, hoping for one splat every even numbered year might be a more reasonable estimate for now.

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  • Irked
    replied
    Originally posted by AnubisXy View Post

    I also remembered 1st edition coming out pretty fast. Looking up the release dates, it actually looks like 1st edition was releasing even faster than 2nd edition did. During the first 8 months of Exalted's publication White Wolf was publishing one Exalted book each month. By the time 14 months had passed we already had 12 Exalted books released, with Lunars coming out the next month.

    Admittedly, Onyx Path is not White Wolf, but I can see why people feel 3rd edition is coming out at a glacial speed compared to the previous editions.
    Right. I think it's very worth separating the ideas

    "Ex3 is coming out much, much slower than any previous edition"

    and

    "Ex3 should be coming out at [some rate]."

    #2 is arguable from various perspectives, and any answer to it is going to depend on some unprovable assertions and counterfactuals (such as, f'rex, "The quality would/would not be significantly lower if it was significantly faster"). But for whatever reasons, Ex3 is as a matter of empirical fact a lot slower than past editions.
    Last edited by Irked; 12-27-2016, 09:56 PM.

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  • AnubisXy
    replied
    Originally posted by Irked View Post
    Well, compare to Ex2, which released just over ten years earlier, in March 2006. Per this, in the eight subsequent months, we saw:
    I also remembered 1st edition coming out pretty fast. Looking up the release dates, it actually looks like 1st edition was releasing even faster than 2nd edition did. During the first 8 months of Exalted's publication White Wolf was publishing one Exalted book each month. By the time 14 months had passed we already had 12 Exalted books released, with Lunars coming out the next month.

    Admittedly, Onyx Path is not White Wolf, but I can see why people feel 3rd edition is coming out at a glacial speed compared to the previous editions.

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  • PneumaPilot
    replied
    Wow, Irked, it's impossible to imagine how happy I would be/would have been if Ex3 released even half the number of books that were released in Second Edition this far out!

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  • Irked
    replied
    So, a point of comparison: let's, for the sake of argument, run with April 2016 as the release date for Ex3. (My personal feel would be that the backer release date makes better sense, given the relatively small changes - but let's set that aside*.) So, okay, April to December: eight months, during which we've had the overflow/backer reward PDF released. Why does that feel slow?

    Well, compare to Ex2, which released just over ten years earlier, in March 2006. Per this, in the eight subsequent months, we saw:
    • The Storyteller's Companion (March)
    • BoS: WotLA (April)
    • CotD: Scavenger Lands (June)
    • MoEP: Dragon-Blooded (July)
    • CoCD: Blessed Isle (October)
    • Scroll of the Monk (November)
    Or, more generally: in the same period of time we had two setting books, an Artifact book, a splatbook, and a Martial Arts book release, as well as a broad "here's how to fake everything" book.

    Before anyone says it, there were obvious tradeoffs to that approach, as anyone who remembers the mess that is DBs or SotM can attest. I'm not arguing here that 2e had a universally better schedule - but, realistically, I don't think we're likely to see that much quantity of material until... well, does anyone object to "sometime in 2018" as a minimum estimate? So ~25 months - about a third the pace. Of course that feels slow.

    Maybe you think it should be slow! Maybe you feel there's a worthwhile quality trade for that quantity. But for good or ill, it is a lot slower than days gone by.

    For comparison, Ex2 released its eighth and final splatbook (Alchemicals) roughly three years after launch, in February '09. If "a third the pace" is a reasonable hypothesis, Ex3 would see a comparable number of splatbooks out in 2025. I don't think that's an outrageous projection from the pattern so far.


    * - If we tally from the backer release and count it as 14 months, the problem compounds, as we add in:
    • BoS: W&B Treatise (January '07)
    • CocD: Wyld (March '07)
    • MoEP: Lunars (April '07)
    • BoS: Oadenal's Codex (May '07)
    Last edited by Irked; 12-27-2016, 06:39 PM.

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  • Isator Levi
    replied
    Apart from the prior comment about sorcerous workings, I think that Death of Obsidian Butterflies being an old standby begs the question of why sorcerers need to be particularly combat oriented in the first place.

    ‚ÄčEven if that question should be answered, a stat to cover such things seems unnecessary, since a person who wants variations on early offensive methods not only has the benefit of the precedent for Merits from Initiations providing such, but that the difference between coming up with a spell that the Storyteller says has existed all along and provides an instructor for and devising a new spell in-character is really a matter of individual tastes.

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  • Blaque
    replied
    Originally posted by PneumaPilot View Post

    Yes, that is true, and I'm very glad for that!

    What would be really awesome is a game-stat method for creating spells and effects (maybe partially similar to Mage), rather than relying on "weird and unique" spell effects like 'Death of Obsidian Butterflies'. It seems like every sorcerer in Exalted starts out with that spell just to have a basic combat spell, but to have something be so...old standby-ish...in the amazingly creative world of Exalted just feels off. The new shaping rituals, etc. provide a lot of new uniqueness to the sorcery system, but I think we need better ways to create spell effects on the fly (similar to Stunting).
    Free form stuff is mostly taken-up by the sorcerous workings system. The weird, exotic spells thing is related to Exalted's base in pulp fantasy. It was from the get go mean tto elucidate stuff like the Dying Earth, Flat Earth or the Black Company, which had some pretty focused spellcasting stuff about. Workings just also let htem do the weird unique project sutff, which is what a lot of "freeform" magic in epic fantasy ficiton often actually looks more like.

    And stuff.

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  • PneumaPilot
    replied
    Originally posted by The Wizard of Oz View Post
    Well, there's a lot more sorcery (and martial arts) than in the 2nd edition Core.
    Yes, that is true, and I'm very glad for that!

    What would be really awesome is a game-stat method for creating spells and effects (maybe partially similar to Mage), rather than relying on "weird and unique" spell effects like 'Death of Obsidian Butterflies'. It seems like every sorcerer in Exalted starts out with that spell just to have a basic combat spell, but to have something be so...old standby-ish...in the amazingly creative world of Exalted just feels off. The new shaping rituals, etc. provide a lot of new uniqueness to the sorcery system, but I think we need better ways to create spell effects on the fly (similar to Stunting).

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  • The Wizard of Oz
    replied
    Well, there's a lot more sorcery (and martial arts) than in the 2nd edition Core.

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  • PneumaPilot
    replied
    I feel like the core book is full-to-bursting with the sheer enormity of the content, and yet everything but the Solar Charms seems like an abbreviation. If we want to play Solars, we have an excellent resource with which to build characters, but if we need any other information, we have to try to leverage the books of an older edition. And this applies to practically everything! Want a cool sword? Here are two possibilities, but really you're going to have to make your own. Want to know about the West? Well, here are a couple of pages, but you really need to go get the Second Edition book on the subject if you want to play there. Need an adversary for your group? Here are a couple from each Exalt type, etc., but you're going to have to start rolling your own if you want anything else, and that means completely creating your own adversarial Charm sets.

    In my opinion, Exalted is the absolute best role-playing game on the planet, and the Third Edition definitely seems to be the best edition of the game (although I liked the uniformity of the graphical design and layout of Second Edition best), but we REALLY need some more material STAT! If we get Arms of the Chosen (fills in a lot of missing details on equipment, power armor, warstriders, Evocations, etc.) and a Dragon-Blooded book (primary adversary material) in 2017, then we will be a LONG way toward making this edition playable. But as someone above said, we very much need a sorcery book to round out the basic building blocks of an Exalted game. Sorcery seems amazing in Third Edition. I'm sad that we got so little of it.

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  • Maudova
    replied
    If you think about the books in a sort of meta way, the dragon-blooded need to come out before the others. Sidereal are a major supporting force behind the dragon-blooded in heaven, so they make sense to be next. So looking at the Sidereals, the developers have said they are their favorite exalt, or at least they would want to play them first if they had the opportunity. Now let's think about that a bit, so one of the major forces working against the sidereals are lunar insurgents and warlords. So the Sidereals need to come out before Lunars so that the Lunar lore can detail how they circumvent the Sidereal's plans. Of course we've had rumor that exigents will be after DB, but until we see it on production schedule nothing is set in stone. Next we look at the wider scope of the game world. Major threats on the map to everyone are the Abyssal. So the Abyssal book needs to come out before say Getimian or Alchemicals, But then we look at other threats like the Raksha/Fair folk. Then somewhere in that mix we have Liminals. Will they come out before a core splat, who knows?

    If the dragon blooded book release schedule and surrounding releases is any indication we should be looking at a regional book with each splat, right? So sidereals will get the heaven book, the Lunars will get the Wyld book, the Abyssals will get the underworld book (or maybe the Liminals will get the close to surface underworld and Abyssals will get deep Underworld).

    As far as the supporting books: Sorcery, Artifacts, Martial Arts, and Manses those books are ancillary to the progress of the game and we shouldn't expect those to come out on any regular schedule.It appears like the way the game is going through is production development cycle involves rethinking the old mechical structures of the game and trying to go in different directions to see if there really is a better way to do it instead of just marching on old orders.

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  • Ferryman
    replied
    Mod edit. Not helpful or appropriate. Darksider
    Last edited by Darksider; 12-27-2016, 04:55 AM.

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