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The Liminal Exalted: Clearing up my Mental Scratchspace for them

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  • #16
    Personally, while I don't expect Topsoils to be particularly adept at Evocations, I doubt any Exalted will be unable to develop them. Introducing this exciting new thing to the game and then making a character type that can't use it seems somewhat counterproductive to me, excluding some character concepts and development paths for basically no good reason.


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    • #17
      Actually, since you've gone and reminded me of the whole "Chernozem" sobriquet, danelsan, I'd like to go ahead and posit that (again, if they have a particular resonant material at all) Liminals are probably more likely to have jade as their special magical material over soulsteel. Though as Liminals lack the elemental associations their brothers-in-Aspects - the Dragon-Blooded - possess, they'll probably have a different scheme by which they map to the colors of jade.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by danelsan View Post
        Personally, while I don't expect Topsoils to be particularly adept at Evocations, I doubt any Exalted will be unable to develop them. Introducing this exciting new thing to the game and then making a character type that can't use it seems somewhat counterproductive to me, excluding some character concepts and development paths for basically no good reason.
        ​I think this is part of what one gets when the magical materials are first put in with the Exalted already in mind; they're all matched up neatly, the materials given rich imagery to tie them deeply into the Exalted who were all more or less in mind from the beginning. It gets a bit shaky with the introduction of Infernals, but there are a few premises that can help that land, even if possibly a bit misguided.

        ​It gets complicated when one wishes to start adding new Exalted, when the magical materials are already deeply established, and there would be issues with expanding more of them. It might be easier with Liminals (probably easiest with Getimians), because they come out of something that can be kind of associated with half of soulsteel, but what magical material goes to an Architect? The Chosen of Masks? Of Dice?

        ​I'll be interested to see what the future books, especially Arms, have to say about Lunars and Sidereals and Abyssals developing Evocations to any extent, but in their associations they do seem to primarily be a thing for Solars and Dragon Blooded.

        ​Given how intricate and holistic things in Exalted can be at their best, I would personally find the idea of Evocations not really being something that fits with the associations of Liminals to be good enough reason.

        ​I'm focused on the idea of Evocations as more than an arsenal of powers for a weapon; of them evoking the spirit of the unity between glorious culture hero and legendary weapon, most directly brought out in Solar and Terrestrial, possibly found narrow between Lunars and Sidereals with their particular magical materials.

        ​It doesn't seem to fit with the more underground type of thing with Liminals, to me.

        ​I wouldn't call it balanced, but I would at least see some compensation in the idea of what they can get by taking limbs.


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        • #19
          Though now I'm reminded of how Megatron chooses to loophole his way into wielding a legendary weapon said to only work "in the hand of a Prime." Maybe a Liminal can get Evocation access that way.

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          • #20
            I meant to include the idea that I would not regard it as out of bounds to have certain access to powers by taking in parts of those who already did, depending on how that part of Liminals works.


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            • #21
              It seems appropriate to resurrect this thread rather than start a new one.

              What about Liminals and Zenith caste? There's no denying that Liminals are not-living, but are they 'creature of darkness'?

              On the topic of the 'dark mother', is there an underworld equivalent of Cecylene? Whichever entity is charged with guarding or being the barrier between the worlds of the dead and living would be a prime candidate for creating its unnatural police officers. Though, to be honest, based on their aspects, I get a kind of 'zombie-styled-'the crow'' vibe about the Liminals. Most of them don't know what they really are or why they're really there but are driven by passions and motives derived from the way they died.


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              • #22
                And they do have a connection with Soulsteel.

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                • #23
                  IF I recall correctly, the devs did at one point say that the Dark Mother wasn't Gaia, but that she was a "relic" of the First Age or something. But I might not recall correctly, and things may have changed.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Anaximander View Post
                    IF I recall correctly, the devs did at one point say that the Dark Mother wasn't Gaia, but that she was a "relic" of the First Age or something. But I might not recall correctly, and things may have changed.
                    I can imagine the Dark Mother being some sort of thing created to guard the boundary between the living and the dead - but then we're getting dangerously close to another version of IceMind...


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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by PraxisCat View Post
                      Their Magical Material, like Abyssals, is Soulsteel, right? We know how the Abyssals get their hands on soulsteel, since it is more abundant in the plays they haunt (har har), but liminals, from their splat description, seem pretty keenly focused on Creation.
                      Not quite. From the Arms of the Choosen previews Liminal Exalted are not particularly adept at drawing out evocations and Soulsteel is the only magical material with which they are not dissonant.
                      Originally posted by CapitanTypo View Post
                      Though, to be honest, based on their aspects, I get a kind of 'zombie-styled-'the crow'' vibe about the Liminals. Most of them don't know what they really are or why they're really there but are driven by passions and motives derived from the way they died.
                      Well, yes, though for the Liminals it is from the way the resurrection was attempted.
                      Last edited by Greyman; 04-28-2017, 04:14 AM.

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by CapitanTypo View Post
                        What about Liminals and Zenith caste? There's no denying that Liminals are not-living, but are they 'creature of darkness'?
                        Sometimes. What it might be conditional on we don't know.


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                        • #27
                          After a couple of discussion on the forum about liminals, i've decided to rewrite the premise of my game session tonight.

                          The characters are floating around the dreaming sea looking for a purpose - tonight they'll find a Liminal Exalt hacked to pieces in a lifeboat. When they go to investigate, the head will start talking to them then with a freeze frame and a record scratch, explain how he came to be there, and therein lies the plot hook.


                          Visit me at Tales of Grey - my RPG Game-Master's blog.

                          "If only I had an enemy bigger than my apathy, I could have won" - I gave you all, Mumford & Sons

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                          • #28
                            I recommend the Liminal use the cover of "The Hitchiker's Guide to the Galaxy" as a starting point for the discussion. So you know first things first tell them not to panic.

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by CapitanTypo View Post

                              I can imagine the Dark Mother being some sort of thing created to guard the boundary between the living and the dead - but then we're getting dangerously close to another version of IceMind...

                              I never really felt "relic" in that quote was meant to be taken literally as meaning the Dark Mother was a creation of artifice, but just in the colloquial sense of a person whose heyday has come and gone. Then again, all we really have is speculation, and I can see how it might be appropriate for Exalts who are artificial beings to be empowered by a patron who is one as well.

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                              • #30
                                I think that the Dark Mother formed as the 'God' of the Underworld. During the First Age, she would have been slowly gaining power. By the end of the Second Age, she has enough power to start working against the Deathlords and the Abyssal Exalted. She opposes the Deathlords and the Abyssal Exalted because she fears their power could be turned against her. The Liminal Exalted would be her tools for disrupting the plans of the Deathlords and Abyssal Exalted.

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