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  • Summoning

    How many spirits can a single sorcerer have bound to him at any given time?

    I ask because i gave my group 1 months worth of down time in game to allow them some character development out of play...
    Usually this is represented as some sort of montage where they explain what they spend their experience on & how they spend their free time.

    One player spent the entire month summoning as many elemental's as he could which worries me he might be building a powerful army very early on as we are only
    4 sessions in...


    If you think nobody cares if you're alive, try missing a couple of payments.

  • #2
    Originally posted by Walker-of-Ebony-Clouds View Post
    How many spirits can a single sorcerer have bound to him at any given time?
    There's no upper limit beyond that of the binding's duration.

    Originally posted by Walker-of-Ebony-Clouds View Post
    One player spent the entire month summoning as many elemental's as he could which worries me he might be building a powerful army very early on as we are only
    4 sessions in...
    Here's some tactics to consider…

    1) Ask him, the player, to reconsider. Explain that you're concerned about possible balance concerns and escalation. Simple and often effective, albeit not the slightest bit Watsonian.

    2) Remind him elementals in particular are generally not capable of dematerializing, meaning that his elemental entourage is very conspicuous, and the circle may want to avoid undue attention. This should probably have occurred to his character before he made the attempt, after all, but if he's okay with that…

    3) Remind him that spirits are people and not perfect servitors; they may do their damnedest to fulfill the letter and spirit of his orders to the best of their understanding, but that understanding is not perfect, and a scorpion is going to have a hard time trying to act like a duck 24/7. And controlling a lot of them is gonna be a lot like herding cats. This should probably have occurred to his character before he made the attempt, after all, but if he's okay with that…

    4) Don't be afraid to use the battle group rules to represent the elementals in combat if he summons more than a couple of them. Action economy is very valuable in this new edition, and giving each of his elementals a turn in combat would be effectively giving him thirty-plus turns each round.

    5) Remember that moving an army from one place to another is not a simple thing - even with supernatural means of travel, having a huge band like this requires logistics. This may not have occurred to his character, but he'll learn it pretty quick if he goes through with it!
    Last edited by TheCountAlucard; 01-19-2017, 08:54 PM.

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    • #3
      If he wants the benefits of having a shitton of elementals, give them to him... and the considerable problems. Besides being highly conspicuous, there could be other problems as well---how well are all these elementals going to get along? With all these elementals hanging around, perhaps he's going to attract the notice of some god or grander elemental or something like that.

      Of course, first I'd ask him to maybe not do this in the first place.


      Abyssals: Whom Death Has Called, a PEACH-as-heck attempt to make an Abyssal 3E holdover.

      Where I try to make Artifacts. When I finish them I'll probably post them in the Artifact Workshop thread so people can help me hammer them into shape.

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      • #4
        I'm with the Count first find out what the player is planning with them that way you know where you can work it. I mean I had a player who would have done that almost immediately and basically said that they were security, maintenance crew, and what have you for the manse.

        If the player is planning an army then you can figure out what the benefits and problems that might come up from trying to use the army are.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by nalak42 View Post
          I'm with the Count first find out what the player is planning with them that way you know where you can work it. I mean I had a player who would have done that almost immediately and basically said that they were security, maintenance crew, and what have you for the manse.

          If the player is planning an army then you can figure out what the benefits and problems that might come up from trying to use the army are.
          He says its for exactly that security & construction of a manse... Upon binding these elementals his exact conditions for them is that they are bound to serve him in anyway he desires & they must not interact with anything with a soul unless told otherwise by him with self defense being the only exception....

          If he summons one a day for a month then he will have around 30 spirits at his beck & call...

          A few of the other players are a bit worried about him having that many spirits at his beck & call & him constructing a manse...


          If you think nobody cares if you're alive, try missing a couple of payments.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Walker-of-Ebony-Clouds View Post

            He says its for exactly that security & construction of a manse... Upon binding these elementals his exact conditions for them is that they are bound to serve him in anyway he desires & they must not interact with anything with a soul unless told otherwise by him with self defense being the only exception....

            If he summons one a day for a month then he will have around 30 spirits at his beck & call...

            A few of the other players are a bit worried about him having that many spirits at his beck & call & him constructing a manse...
            Nah manses can actually be rather big and difficult to construct, so thirty isn't that excessive for it.

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            • #7
              Let them do it. The corebook mentions it specifically as something a sorcerer can do. Elementals won't necessarily cause the same problems as a hosts of demons, but they can still cause problems. You have the two types of summoning, summoning by task and summoning as servants. Task summoning probably going to be easier on the Summoner, but Servant summoning can be insanely useful. But if you are spending every day summoning, you likely won't succeed on every summoning attempt. Summoning itself is also a full time job, and to represent this I would have after the downtime the player starting again with low Willpower.

              What are the Elementals going to be used for? If combat they will be used as a battlegroup, and a potent one. If you set them to actual work you can do amazing things, like creating your own valley, or Island, or Castle, or whatever Geographical landscape. Lots of Elementals working together are also going to cause Elementals not summoned by you to start being born as they come to be from aggregation of Elemental essence, and besides that they also will likely attract other Elementals who are drawn to all this Elemental essence active in the area.

              But this is a reasonable method of play. The PC will be exhausted after the month, but will also have a very worthwhile entourage. So all of the PC's time will be eaten up by the summoning but once the PC stops they summoning they will have a very worthwhile force. They are essentially building a temporary elemental court. If it was demons it would likely draw even more unwanted attention.


              It is a time for great deeds!

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              • #8
                How can they build a manse without interacting with "anything with a soul?"

                Would that directive not proscribe teamwork?

                What does thirty guys - each working completely independently of one another - trying to build the same building in the same place even look like?
                Last edited by TheCountAlucard; 01-19-2017, 11:53 PM.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Walker-of-Ebony-Clouds View Post
                  Upon binding these elementals his exact conditions for them is that they are bound to serve him in anyway he desires & they must not interact with anything with a soul unless told otherwise by him with self defense being the only exception....
                  It's worth clarifying that this is "year and a day" binding rather than task binding, because "do whatever I desire" is a non-specific task.


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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Eric Minton View Post
                    It's worth clarifying that this is "year and a day" binding rather than task binding, because "do whatever I desire" is a non-specific task.
                    Thanks, I was going to point this out as well!

                    I'm curious how a player can claim a group of summoned beings are for "security and manse construction" when he summoned them under a blanket statement of: "serve me in whatever I desire"? It sounds more like he has a gang of spirits who are capable of security and construction, but are by no means dedicated to it. Also, how would an elemental provide security if it can't interact with beings with souls? Could cause some amusing interactions as the elementals try and protect objects or areas without interacting with the thieves/trespassers.

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                    • #11
                      He seems to be under the impression that only mortal beings & exalts have souls & everything else functions differently by design like spirits, gods, fair folk... He seems to be referencing older game lore like Autochthon & the font/well of souls & a lot of extremely meta stuff. Even if i agree with him or disagree I am curious if the average spirit knows what does or does not have a soul & how the heck does his character know about souls...

                      Seems he is getting what he as a player knows confused with what his character knows...
                      Last edited by Walker-of-Ebony-Clouds; 01-20-2017, 02:18 AM.


                      If you think nobody cares if you're alive, try missing a couple of payments.

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                      • #12
                        To be fair, if I saw a group of greenmaws looking menacing around the borders of a magician's construction site, my default assumption would probably not be "Eh, they're probably ensorcelled to ignore me. I can trespass safely."

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                        • #13
                          I would say Spawning a bunch of Elementals they would likely have a hard time knowing exactly who has a soul or not, unless your summoner bothers to give them a quick class lesson after each summoning on how he thinks souls work.


                          It is a time for great deeds!

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                          • #14
                            With regard to souls, I can't think offhand of any creature in the setting with the power to detect whether something has a soul. So either the summoner explains what sorts of beings fall under that rubric, or the elementals will be left to guess what's intended of them.


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                            • #15
                              also technically humans have two souls and thus do not have "a soul" and are thus fair game for the elementals to interact with

                              tee hee hee


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