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Can Evocations Give Charms.

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  • Can Evocations Give Charms.

    Can an items evocation directly provide access to a solar charm? Regardless of prereqs.

  • #2
    I'd say it depends on the charm.
    If you've got a pair of short daiklaves with a theme of "hit the other bastard back" it seems silly to ignore Solar Counterattack but the more specific the charm's effects are the more likely the artifact will feel like a charm on the end of a stick.

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    • #3
      I mean, Evocations are functionally just like Charms. You can make an Evocation that works like a charm, or you can make an evocation that you activate to give you the ability to activate another charm. I personally think both are bad Evocation design, but that's personal opinion, not objective fact. If that's the path you want, I say cut out the middle man and just make an evocation that's a copy-paste of the charm you want it to have and there you go.

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      • #4
        You could make Evocations that function similar to some Charms but I would be careful about using Evocations to give easy access to certain Charms. For example, I could easily make a soulsteel dagger with an Evocation that works like Ghost-Slaying, but it would still be an Evocation and not the actual Ghost-Slaying Charm. I would probably make some changes to the Ghost-Slaying Evocation to be different enough to not step on Charm space though, and still make the player evaluate Occult Charms as an option.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Lioness View Post
          ... will feel like a charm on the end of a stick.
          This is a big point. evocations are a way to access weird esoteric powers outside the space of standard charms. It's a delicate balancing act trying to balance them so that neither is devalued or ignored, which I admit is why I'm scared to mess around with Evocations too much until Arms of the Chosen drops. For now I'd just say I'd be hesitant to exactly duplicate a charm., especially any Exalts native charm.

          (Even as I wrote this I started to imagine specific counter-examples, like a sword that contains the all of Single Point Shining in the Darkness style. A mortal can attune to it, maybe with some amount of life force like the old Gunzosha armor idea, and then gain access to the Terrestrial level charms as evocations. A Dragon-blooded who attuned would ignore the Terrestrial tag, or gain the Mastery effects if already initiated high enough to shrug those off. any Exalt would have access to some alternate evocation tree that still converyed the idea of ultimate mastery of self through mastery of the sword.)


          • #6
            Like some other people, I've stopped doing Evocation homebrew while waiting for Arms. Though I have toyed with the idea to structure some aspects of Evocations similar to sorcerous shaping rituals. Perhaps the bond with the artifact creates a "permanent" brand you can't get rid of without deattuning the artifact. Perhaps it opens up possible Merits as well as Charm-like powers. Perhaps it opens up new Gambits or adds extensions to certain Charms. Perhaps it changes the way your Excellency work when using the artifact. Mechanically, these would all be very different to each other: passive effects, merits, extensions, gambits, charms. But they would all be aspects of the artifact's evocations. It also allows for more creative freedom.

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            • #7
              Wouldn't recommend it, especially if it's letting you short-circuit longer prereq chains.

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              • #8
                Also because Evocations can be purchased with Solar XP, while Charms cannot. So that coupled with the potential issue of leapfrogging prereqs makes me very suspicious of the idea.

                There's nothing wrong with looking at existing Charms for inspiration, but I wouldn't do Charm -> Evoc copypasta. Evocations should be unique.

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                • #9
                  The closest I would go with evocations giving charms would be stuff like learning a charm that was inspired by an evocation. (I'll point out I don't have melee memorized so if I'm forgetting a charm i'd love to know the name.) Essentially let's say you have a diaklave that's got a wind aspect to it and one of it's basic evocation it learns let's you do that whole swing your sword and the air will slice things apart at range. Eventually your solar ends up developing and learn a charm that lets them do the same trick, so even if you're in a duel and you can't use that sword you can still do the trick.
                  Last edited by nalak42; 01-27-2017, 09:23 PM.


                  • #10
                    I would say no, at least not directly. If your player wants to be able to mimic an effect of a Solar charm, I do think it is fair to give them something similar, but with enough differences that a player wouldn't see its native replacement as worthless.

                    In the past, one of my players asked that her weapon give her access to Spirit-Detecting Glance and Spirit-Cutting Strike because Orichalcum = Solar Affinity = Solar Charms. I didn't agree with this line of thought, primarily because the weapon's aesthetics didn't lend directly themselves to what she wanted to do and I did feel super-cautious about the artifact allowing her to cherry-pick charms (even if those two have ridiculously low prereqs).

                    So long story short. this is why the first two Evocations in the Ivy Carillon writeup are what they are. I can't say I succeeded in making something balanced, but I do feel like I made the evocations close enough to meet her needs without making the other charms useless.