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Ysyr and the Dragon Blooded

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  • #76
    Originally posted by Isator Levi View Post

    ​I would be inclined to come up with some religions that go a bit beyond simply worshipping gods.

    At least have some narratives that perpetuate a strong and cohesive sense of why any given god should be worshipped above others.
    Well, yeah that makes sense. Also, I completely forgot about ancestor worship. I was just giving those as examples of "the Immaculate Faith isn't everywhere".


    Literally any gender pronoun is fine, don't worry about it in my case.

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    • #77
      Originally posted by Ghosthead View Post
      On a total tangent triggered in my mind on Levi's post: On the aesthetics and feel of the "great powers", I find Prasad brings to mind India. Volivat I find harder to place.

      While Ys brings to mind, well... Ys, the island of legend.. so I guess so at least in part evokes Jack Vance's Lyonesse, and that whole fusion of decadent, doomed Sword and Sorcery sensibilities with Arthurian, Celtic and the European High Middle Ages, somehow sitting along with the more psychadelic feel of the Dreaming Sea. This, is a reference I'm almost certain the authors do not intend to be descriptive- because of the general dynamics of the Southeast in particular, and Creation in general - but, there's that name (which just feels like it surely has to somehow be a reference to the Ys of myth?).
      The developers came up with the name "Ysyr," and I am not privy to their thought processes in the matter. But I added the term "Ys" for the corebook writeup, and I definitely had both the mythical Ys and Jack Vance's Lyonesse in mind when I did so. This shouldn't be taken to indicate the presence of medieval Western European cultural markers, though the decadent, doomed Sword & Sorcery sensibilities should be there in spades.

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      • #78
        Oh, and also the Ys from John Brunner's The Traveller in Black.

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        • #79
          Ysyr always made me think of Assyrian (Yssyrian sounds very similair), so I model their aesthetics on the Assyrian Empire.
          Volviat ...I don't know, I made them Levant-Cannanite/Vaugely Israeli? I think the ten fathers immediately connected to ten tribes in my head.


          Restoring demonic glory in Infernals:What Hell Has Wrought

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          • #80
            Something about the statement of Prasad potentially being a third the size of the Realm made me think of some historical comparisons.

            ​For one thing, I frequently have to remind myself that if the Blessed Isle existed on Earth, it would be the second biggest country, not much smaller than Russia, relatively speaking. If the imperial territory of the Realm consisted solely of the Isle, that would already qualify it as something like the fourth or fifth biggest empire in history.

            ​Then you consider its holdings in the Threshold; I mean, they're not directly administered or colonised by the Realm, but they still belong to its territory, so considering exactly how much land one considers that to constitute, the Realm could be almost as large as the Mongol, or even British empire.

            ​If I measure it in terms of land area, the Roman empire was about a third the size of modern day Russia. That does sound like a lot, but if I just look at a map of Eurasia and compare the placement of the two, Russia still really looks like it absolutely dwarfs the Romans, even if one includes the actual area of the Mediterranean sea.

            ​Even without just looking at it on a map, to consider the scope and breadth of Russia (whether the modern form or its largest historical empire); the extent of its diversity of peoples, of landscapes, or climate zones; maybe it's just me, but Russia feels like it's a lot more than the mathematical comparison between other empires.

            ​If I consider Prasad to be roughly the size and shape of the Achaemenid empire, then it still looks and feels as though it's a lot smaller than the Realm, even if it is vastly greater than any state that has to try growing within reach of the Realm's legions could ever be.

            ​As for the assertion that its capital is in the middle of nowhere, we're back to the idea that only the things shown on this zoomed out map are important, as well as a bit of the typical Western thing of assuming that the big body of water is 100% defining. The amount of land in between the Dreaming Sea and the Summer mountains that the map colours in green is about the size of Russia; I presume it has to have a number of important cities strewn around in there, many of which are hundreds of kilometres away from the Dreaming Sea. Certainly, I assume that it has to have at least a few cities that are more important than Champoor. When I'm introduced to the capital of what is supposed to be one of the big empires in the region, I think my first thought should not be "why is it in the middle of nowhere", but rather "what interesting things are there that helps it to be so important".

            Totentanz has already pointed out that it's fairly well placed to access trade to and from the west.

            ​Sure, it's a fair distance away from the Dreaming Sea. It's about the same distance as Delhi is from its closest shore.


            I have approximate knowledge of many things.
            Watch me play Dark Souls III (updated 02/03)
            https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLDtbr08HW8RW4jOHN881YA3yRZBV4lpYw Watch me play Breath of the Wild (updated 12/03)

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            • #81
              When drawing comparisons between Prasad, the Realm, and real-world empires, we should also consider other factors. Russia is huge, yes. A large chunk of that territory is semi-useless. The Realm, on the other hand, sits on the Blessed Isle, the most fertile and climatically stable area of Creation. It has the best geomantic resources, the most existing infrastructure, and of course its rulers possess the lion's share of the treasure from the past Age. None of that factors in its Threshold possessions, which the Empress has optimized for feeding her empire money and manpower for her armies. I'm not sure our world has ever seen an empire as dominant as the Realm.

              Of course, Ex3 takes a hands-off approach to world-building, so individual groups can throw in competing power centers as they see fit.

              It's hard to make a direct comparison on these fronts between the Realm and Prasad, because we don't know nearly as much about the Dreaming Sea region as a whole, unfortunately. If we assume the standard elemental associations apply, Prasad will be more stable and cooler, but less fecund than Ysyr.

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              • #82
                Tossing in another picture to help get a clear picture of the size of the dreaming seas...

                Each damned square there is in terms of size equivalent to 1.2 modern day France... So There should be numerous large cities/empires/kingdoms in the dreaming seas. Not to mention the countless hamlets, villages and small towns.

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                • #83
                  Originally posted by Bladewind View Post
                  That's very much the tone that was set by Exalted: The Outcastes where rather than focusing on attitudes and potential sources of Terrestrial Bloodlines it kind of assumes everywhere has a thriving Dragon-Blooded community unless it got poached by the Realm or wiped out.
                  I think the problem is that it frequently tries to communicate the potential of Outcaste Dragon-Blooded through stereotype rather than example.
                  If (for example) you say that Outcaste women in Chiaroscuro tend to take the grey some people are going to read that as them being common enough to draw trends when the author may actually be trying to say that the life of a male Delzhan has more uses for the kind of power Dragon-Blooded wield.


                  Onyx Path Forums Moderator

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                  • #84
                    Originally posted by Eric Minton View Post
                    Oh, and also the Ys from John Brunner's The Traveller in Black.
                    Say... you might KNOW this...

                    On the map, Ysyr (and other locales) are in special little circles. Are those circles like... "magnifying glasses," blowing up smaller territory to show us its topography? Or is Ysyr really that huge?

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                    • #85
                      Originally posted by Jetstream View Post
                      On the map, Ysyr (and other locales) are in special little circles. Are those circles like... "magnifying glasses," blowing up smaller territory to show us its topography? Or is Ysyr really that huge?
                      Oh, yeah; that was not clear at all. Gloam, Bluehaven, and Sunken Luthe do rather look to be magnifying an important feature in a tiny dot in the ocean, don't they?

                      On the other hand, in EX2 Onyx was about the same size as Azure and Abalone (the other two biggest islands of the Coral and Wavecrest Archapelegos), and Bluehaven was positioned where the city icon is in EX3, rather than the dot. I also believe that the Caul is supposed to be to scale with the rest of the map. Thus I'd say the circles are just highlights.

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                      • #86
                        Originally posted by Jetstream View Post

                        Say... you might KNOW this...

                        On the map, Ysyr (and other locales) are in special little circles. Are those circles like... "magnifying glasses," blowing up smaller territory to show us its topography? Or is Ysyr really that huge?
                        I don't have access to special knowledge about this, but Bluehaven, Gloam, Onyx, and Sunken Luthe all share the same sort of "zoomed-in" circles that suggest that they are not to scale. Ysyr's circle doesn't have that same look, which suggests that the island is to scale.

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                        • #87
                          Originally posted by Eric Minton View Post
                          I don't have access to special knowledge about this, but Bluehaven, Gloam, Onyx, and Sunken Luthe all share the same sort of "zoomed-in" circles that suggest that they are not to scale. Ysyr's circle doesn't have that same look, which suggests that the island is to scale.
                          ... We really could use a map key. Like badly. There are a ton of flourishes on the map that could be aesthetic, or they could be signaling something, but it's completely unclear as to what. And those circles, if they mean different things, are super misleading.

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                          • #88
                            Originally posted by Eric Minton View Post
                            I don't have access to special knowledge about this, but Bluehaven, Gloam, Onyx, and Sunken Luthe all share the same sort of "zoomed-in" circles that suggest that they are not to scale.
                            ​The Skullstone Archipelago seems to be an odd addition to those considering that it's a bunch of islands rather than city, and considering how Wu Jian is drawn, it feels odd to single out one important island group for such and not another.

                            ​As for the cities, are we saying that all of the other ones that don't have circles are to scale? That Gloam is a city the size of a city, i.e. something that would not actually be visible on a map at this scale, but that Nexus and Lookshy and Kirighast are the size of small countries?


                            I have approximate knowledge of many things.
                            Watch me play Dark Souls III (updated 02/03)
                            https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLDtbr08HW8RW4jOHN881YA3yRZBV4lpYw Watch me play Breath of the Wild (updated 12/03)

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                            • #89
                              Originally posted by Isator Levi View Post
                              The Skullstone Archipelago seems to be an odd addition to those considering that it's a bunch of islands rather than city, and considering how Wu Jian is drawn, it feels odd to single out one important island group for such and not another.
                              This may be an error on the part of the cartographer. I can't say.

                              Originally posted by Isator Levi View Post
                              ​As for the cities, are we saying that all of the other ones that don't have circles are to scale? That Gloam is a city the size of a city, i.e. something that would not actually be visible on a map at this scale, but that Nexus and Lookshy and Kirighast are the size of small countries?
                              I believe the point is that Gloam is located on a relatively small island, one that would normally not be large enough to appear on the map at its current scale. Mind you, I'm not sure that Wu Jian's island should be large enough for that. The map should not generally be treated as a thing possessed of great in-setting precision.

                              Your suggestion that the map scaling is for cities rather than for land masses is very silly.

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                              • #90
                                Originally posted by Eric Minton View Post

                                Your suggestion that the map scaling is for cities rather than for land masses is very silly.
                                Ohhh I'm very frustrated now. Part of that is that I've had a terrible week, buuuut...

                                Okay, this line:
                                As for the cities, are we saying that all of the other ones that don't have circles are to scale?​
                                Is not me making a suggestion, or asking for confirmation of a fact.

                                That line is me making a point that I find the suggestion that the circles represent magnification to not be consistent with other parts of the map.

                                Indeed, this line:
                                something that would not actually be visible on a map at this scale
                                ​Is me directly stating that neither this, nor any other map of a world, would be scaled to the size of cities.

                                ​I apologise if this post is a bit salty; like I said, terrible week. Just the worst.

                                ​I am also a bit touchy on occasions where something I've written is misread in a manner that I feel would make me come off as... very different.


                                I have approximate knowledge of many things.
                                Watch me play Dark Souls III (updated 02/03)
                                https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLDtbr08HW8RW4jOHN881YA3yRZBV4lpYw Watch me play Breath of the Wild (updated 12/03)

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