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  • #31
    It's a natural weapon, you aren't wearing gloves your hands are transformed, hence you can still use them for DPC. Otherwise what Dragons can only perform martial arts in human form?


    It is a time for great deeds!

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    • #32
      Originally posted by Eldagusto View Post
      It's a natural weapon, you aren't wearing gloves your hands are transformed, hence you can still use them for DPC. Otherwise what Dragons can only perform martial arts in human form?
      I don't think the style would break if you allowed it (short of evocations maybe) but the spell explicitly calls out MA compatibility and DPC is not included.


      My Homebrew: Architect of the Regal Puppet Style (WIP) || Monkey Style || Radiant Halo of Incandescent Might || Pale Driver, Ruination of the Edifice of Tyranny || Sublime Percussion, Just a Whole lot of Fun || Idris, The Graceful Heart of Purpose

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      • #33
        Originally posted by Eldagusto View Post
        It's a natural weapon, you aren't wearing gloves your hands are transformed, hence you can still use them for DPC. Otherwise what Dragons can only perform martial arts in human form?
        Originally posted by Exalted 3rd edition page 476
        The sorcerer transforms her hands into huge, gnarled claws of thorny oak, like those of the majestic elemental dragons of wood.]Slashing with these claws uses the traits of a light artifact weapon with the same tags as an unarmed attack, save that its damage tag is lethal rather than bashing. They are compatible with Martial Arts styles that use claw-type weapons or rending strikes, such as Tiger style. They render the sorcerer’s hands incapable of fine manipulation such as writing, wielding a weapon, or turning a doorknob.
        Wood Dragon's Claw works with Black Claw and Tiger style (which focus on the use of brutal claw attacks). Other styles though, like Dreaming Pearl Courtesan or Crane Style use different types of unarmed movements which are simply incompatible with the massive claws incapable of fine manipulation you receive when you cast Wood Dragon Claw.

        Presumably actual dragons have more fine motor control when it comes to their natural claws than a Sorcerer who turns their hands into giant gnarled talons made out of wood.

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        • #34
          Originally posted by Morangias View Post
          That's Black Claw, not Dreaming Pearl Courtesan.
          Ah, right you are (and everyone else too), my mistake. Well you can either just take the defensive stuff (which actually is the meat of a Black Claw practitioner's use of Dreaming Pearl style, and the best stuff is low essence) or fight unarmed.

          Pardon?

          Pardon?

          The fact that you get artifact tier weapons and armour from basically completely mundane items *and make unarmed attacks from short range* is worthless? Nearly any unarmed MA would love to have the range booster.
          You misread me, I'm not saying its useless in itself. I'm saying if you went in via the route of Black Claw, the artifact weapon and artifact armor generated by this form charm are useles because you already have them. (Silken robes for the use of Pearlescent Filigree Defence and Wood Dragon Claw because it is awesome).

          The short range attacks are nice, but once again you have to decide between Wood Dragon's Claw and fighting unarmed. (And this is also in competition with Black Claw Form)

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          • #35
            Originally posted by Elkovash View Post
            We did a dry run of this character at appearance 7 with a combo of Dreaming Pearl, Dodge and Black Claw vs our circle's Brawl supernal Dawn caste.

            Assuming he didn't begin with any intimacies towards her, he died in the first round from a combo of Vindictive Concubine and Heart Ripping Claw pinging off Open Palm Caress' ambush attack after failing to strike her with a withering attack. If we could have managed a reflexive disengage, she could have gotten the Dreaming Pearl form style up and done even MORE damage, but the only way I've found to do that is Ride (which pushes the character a little outside their conceptual zone).

            In the end she was rolling 18 decisive damage dice with double 8's and successes doubled - 26 lethal health levels in the end and +1 appearance to boot just in case he had friends to deal with.
            That sounds about right. I'm still not big into deep dives into DPC on account of some not so great charms for the Black Claw practitioner, but if you do take it up, all the way, then this is pretty great. (I'm still of the opinion that Heart Ripping Claw is probably enough to end most thing, most times, really)

            Again, combined with Black claw's social influence (Torn Lotus Defence or Outrage Kindling Cry) this charm is hard to match for a mere 4m - given that this acts as set up for an attack that multiplies damage even a single initiative gained by it is well worth the price of admission.
            Ah thats a good use of it I hadn't seen.Well figured.

            I don't like looking at charms in isolation from others, Dreaming pearl might not seem that exciting, but like any charm set, combined with others they become obscenely potent and I don't for a moment believe that such synergies are coincidental.
            I'm not saying it isn't exciting, I'm saying its really expensive to buy deep into two charm trees. There are some nice synergies later on, no doubt. The point I am pushing is that for someone who dips, you get a lot of the value with MA 3 ESS 1 (which is a dip that will break no ones xp budget).

            If you want to go deep, by all means (except for that form charm, its not really gonna help you all that much, and Gazellecarp is even worse because it might replace your silken robes with artifact Medium armor!), as pointed out, there is some very nice synergy there.

            Also another important decision in this is whether to use WDC or not, its a very potent weapon and if you want to use it you are better off dipping.
            Last edited by prototype00; 03-08-2017, 07:34 PM.

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            • #36
              Originally posted by prototype00 View Post

              If you want to go deep, by all means (except for that form charm, its not really gonna help you all that much, and Gazellecarp is even worse because it might replace your silken robes with artifact Medium armor!), as pointed out, there is some very nice synergy there.
              I was actually looking at picking up three resistance charms that due to its wording will work with DPC. The Resistance gem is this:

              Glorious Solar Plate
              Cost: 10m, 1wp; Mins: Resistance 4, Essence 3
              Type: Simple
              Keywords: None
              Duration: Indefnite
              Prerequisite Charms: Hauberk-Summoning
              Gesture
              The Solar bends her anima into a suit of armor in the form of hardened sunfire, bearing all the glorious colors of Solar anima. This armor has stats identical to artifact heavy armor (+11 soak, 10 hardness, -2 mobility), and if the Exalt has mastered the Armored Scout’s Invigoration, Glorious Solar Plate activates its effects for free. Glorious Solar Plate may graft itself over a suit of armor, appearing as a series of interlinked cosmic runes that describe the ascent of the Unconquered Sun to the zenith of heaven at the birth of the universe. This upgrades the armor’s traits if they are lesser than that of Glorious Solar Plate, and adds the armor-enhancing powers of this Charm to the Lawgiver’s current set. If the Solar’s current armor is attuned, grafting Glorious Solar Plate onto it replaces the commitment cost, releasing the attuned motes.
              It says has stats identical, and it says upgrade. It never says 'replace'. Meaning I could wear my light artifact armor and upgrade its stats. My silken shift has now become sunbeams. Awww yeah.

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              • #37
                If that works, great as well! (Though I recall there being some discussion as to whether this was as cut and dry as it was being read).

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by Firstaide View Post
                  It says has stats identical, and it says upgrade. It never says 'replace'. Meaning I could wear my light artifact armor and upgrade its stats. My silken shift has now become sunbeams. Awww yeah.
                  I don't think so. The charm says you upgrade the traits, and category is a trait. Like the increased mobility penalty is part of the upgrade, you have to take the bad with the good.

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Greyman View Post
                    I don't think so. The charm says you upgrade the traits, and category is a trait. Like the increased mobility penalty is part of the upgrade, you have to take the bad with the good.
                    I don't think that this is a good precedent but...

                    Originally posted by Exalted 3rd Edition Core; Pg 580
                    In addition to the obvious categories of melee
                    weapons and missile weapons, all mortal weapons are
                    divided into three broad damage categories—light, medium,
                    and heavy
                    —depending on their size and power. All weapons
                    in the same category have the same basic combat traits.
                    Emphasis mine. Category is Light, Medium or Heavy.
                    Traits are everything else that isn't a tag.
                    the division is clear and distinct.

                    the quote is from the weapons section but armor section is silent on the matter so it's safe to assume they work the same way.
                    technically Firstaide is correct. - as Her GM though I don't know if I'd necessarily allow it and am still deciding if giving her access to additional soak is actually all that big of a problem beyond reducing granularity/individuality between MA and native Charms

                    hell, Glorious Solar Plate even explicitly calls out what 'stats' it imparts and size category is not one of them (they are listed in parenthesis)
                    Last edited by Elkovash; 03-09-2017, 07:45 AM.


                    My Homebrew: Architect of the Regal Puppet Style (WIP) || Monkey Style || Radiant Halo of Incandescent Might || Pale Driver, Ruination of the Edifice of Tyranny || Sublime Percussion, Just a Whole lot of Fun || Idris, The Graceful Heart of Purpose

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                    • #40
                      I'm at least reasonably sure that nobody I've seen on this board disputes (Maybe I'm about to find some that do!) the Pearlescent Filigree Defence / Silken Robes route to usage in Black Claw Style (If you don't have the Silken Robes it just doesn't work), so I'm reasonably sure that will fly (because I haven't seen any Storytellers eager to downgrade artifacts because of charms).

                      The Glorious Solar Plate I've witnessed a one page forum back and forth discussion about in the MA thread, so that is shaky ground to me.

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