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Why Linguistics should be the "Art" skill

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  • #16
    Looking through the Linguistics Charms, I don't think much needs to change.

    All of the Linguistics Charms involving writing can easily cover painting; in fact, Linguistics already explicitly covers illustration and map-making.

    But whenever a character wants to carve, sculpt, or assemble an image, he still needs to use Craft and Craft Charms, because the materials and work required are more involved than applying ink to paper. Usually, this will only require a Basic project. Rarely will this ever involve a Major project. If you're trying to carve, sculpt, or assemble a work of art at least as large as a sailing vessel, then it deserves to be a Superior project!

    But any craft project should be an acceptable vector for the social influence of Linguistics Charms... with some clarifying examples and suggestions.


    Letter-Within-A-Letter Technique would let you hide a scene within a scene in a painting. Sort of like all of the mockery Michelangelo included in the Sistine Chapel. Basically, imagine that everyone is standing around the painting of Dogs Playing Poker, but you alone are given the privilege of seeing Venus and Luna passionately necking. This one can easily be stretched to include sculpture.

    It would also let you prepare a meal that everyone found delicious, except for the one person for whom you tailor the food to taste absolutely awful.

    Or you might forge a warhammer which obviously evokes a particular national or religious symbol for one person in particular while hiding that association from everyone else. You could design a sword that looks nothing like a key to an invincible battle-fortress, except for the one person who looks at the sword and instantly knows for certain that it is in fact such a key, and also discerns the message of where the fortress can be found.


    Essence-Laden Missive would trick the observer into unwittingly speaking aloud the message they perceive within the artwork. He blurts out that he sees Venus and Luna together, or that the food is awful, or that the warhammer is actually a blasphemous icon, whereas Voice-Caging Calligraphy would PREVENT him from communicating the information he has gleaned.



    Sagacious Reading of Intent can help you examine sculptures and paintings without a problem... and also help you appreciate a meal that you know your rival Solar meant to disgust you.

    Word-Shield Invocation can protect you from graven images or oil-paintings so horrifying that they would warp your mind.

    Vanishing Immersion Style would let you assume a poker face for as long as you are discerning any deliberate message that someone tried to convey through painting, sculptures, food, or weaponry.

    Discerning Savant's Eye should allow a Solar to see what a sculpture or building would have looked like before it fell into ruin.

    Swift Sage's Eye cannot enable a Solar to run through a garden- or city-sized sculpture more quickly, but just as Discerning Savant's Eye allows a Solar to see the whole of artwork which is no longer whole, SSE could let the Solar intuit the words formed by the walls of a massive labyrinth, which only a bird's eye view could have seen.


    A Solar should be NOT capable of using Flashing Quill Atemi to alter the message hidden within a pre-existing Crafts-project without having enough Crafting ability to alter the object on FQA's time-scale.

    ..
    Last edited by Sunder the Gold; 03-21-2017, 10:03 PM.


    Formerly Inugami, formerly Tornado Wolf.

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    • #17
      Wait, I changed my mind about Flashing Quill Atemi. How does this sound?

      FQA doesn't alter the functional form of an object; a scroll remains a scroll and a book remains a book. It simply alters the object enough to change the message conveyed through it. As long as FQA wouldn't alter how the target object works, a Solar could completely alter a book or a painting at a touch. Words carved into a tree trunk can be smoothed over and recarved.

      The Solar cannot rearrange the stone walls of the maze to spell something else, because that would change the functional path of the maze... but messages hidden with Letter-Within-A-Letter Technique might be fair game for FQA, since those messages are so subtle that they may not impact the function of an object or structure.


      Formerly Inugami, formerly Tornado Wolf.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by BrilliantRain View Post
        Because of the way Ex3 is set up, Linguistics really needs to explicitly take all the "art for art's sake" crafts. Probably it should be renamed to Art or something in the process, but we'll ignore that for the moment.

        Generally speaking, if someone is trying to make a painting (or similar piece of art) in the game, that's probably a social action of some kind, most likely Inspire. Craft is not really set up to make social attacks. It has no charms which give it any bonuses or trigger on a successful social attack. All it has is every dice trick in the game so you can hit the required number of successes to make an artifact. Being able to get double 7s, reroll half your dice, buy extra successes, and get non charm bonus dice so you can create a painting that has a 30 success Instill action on it is really not what was intended by Solar Craft.

        Now, obviously, said Solar can still do that and, via the basic objectives, there's a strong implication that people should be impressed by the Solar's skill and everything, but the ST doesn't have to deal with the mechanical obligations of a 30 success social influence action.

        On the other hand, Linguistics is a social influence ability already. Giving it greater ability to create Inspire actions doesn't seem likely to break anything and it will open it up a bit more for play. Being a writer can be a bit tricky to work with, but a painter or sculptor has more common utility.

        Mechanically speaking, what this would mean is that, if you want to create a "useful object," you roll Craft. If you want to create something which serves as the vehicle for Social Influence, you roll Linguistics. If you want to create a useful object that also serves as the vehicle for Social Influence, you make a Craft roll AND a Linguistics roll.

        I think most of the existing Linguistics charms make sense under this paradigm, but adding a few custom charms specifically for Influence actions might be warranted.

        So, any thoughts? Have I missed something?
        I think you could call the ability "Artistry"

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        • #19
          Part of the problem, for me anyway, is that there are 2 facets to art: the skill at making things and the skill at imbuing those things with intelligible meaning. I'm totally down with using Linguistics as the "imbuing things with meaning" skill, because a lot of (modern*) art is that, just ask Marcel Duchamp.

          But you still need to be technically proficient even if what you're making is completely useless, which is a completely separate skill set.


          TLDR: I like Sunder's take on it.


          * I'm also down with using modern art sensibilties in Exalted, because it's more fun for me that way.


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          • #20
            edit: nevermind; I double-checked and turns out I mis-remembered some stuff.
            Last edited by Fata-Ku; 03-24-2017, 11:05 AM.


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            • #21
              As a Solar, could I leave a single discarded sock in the foyer of my home as a medium to perform a Manipulation + Linguistics social action to lure someone to my bed-chambers?

              With Letter-Within-A-Letter Technique, a single guest of an entire arriving party is the only one to recognize the true meaning of the sock.

              With Voice-Caging Calligraphy, they are rendered incapable of unwittingly or intentionally alerting their friends of my intentions.

              With Stolen-Voice Technique and Moving the Unseen Hand, I could actually be an invader to the home who fools the guest into thinking that the home's owner is the one who placed the sock there. I might also instead use Essence-Laden Missive to cause the guest to blurt the message out among the others and spark a controversy.

              With Flowing Elegant Hand, my sock-message is damn persuasive.


              Formerly Inugami, formerly Tornado Wolf.

              My RWBY Blog on Tumblr: Semblances, Kingdoms, Grimm, and more!

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              • #22
                Honestly, I'm very much okay with that level of silliness, mainly because Lunars can do very similar things with Glance Oration Technique and the shape of a humble Sea Cucumber.


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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Fata-Ku View Post
                  Honestly, I'm very much okay with that level of silliness, mainly because Lunars can do very similar things with Glance Oration Technique and the shape of a humble Sea Cucumber.
                  It was thinking about possible Lunar Charms that got me on this idea.

                  I've been wanting a Charm that a Lunar can use to convey social actions through alterations of the environment. Clawmarks on a tree, pissing on some rocks, or erecting a freaky totem pole can be used to repel invaders from the area with supernatural fear, while more inviting messages (such as perfume sprayed on a door-jam or a sock left on a door) can be used to lure people further in against their better judgment.

                  This thread made me realize that such social influence could be rolled as a Linguistics action, which got me to questioning why a Solar couldn't do the same thing with Linguistics Charms. As I show in this thread, I very much think that Solar should be doing stuff like this with Linguistics Charms (though the totem pole would require a Craft project for the Solar and Lunar alike).


                  Formerly Inugami, formerly Tornado Wolf.

                  My RWBY Blog on Tumblr: Semblances, Kingdoms, Grimm, and more!

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                  • #24
                    Speaking of Lunar Charms, which attribute should allow a Lunar to invest hidden meanings into her actions and messages?

                    Manipulation, because of deception and lying? Or Intelligence, for clever coding?

                    Scar-Making Blow was a Strength/Charisma Charm.


                    Formerly Inugami, formerly Tornado Wolf.

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                    • #25
                      So, probably an Appearance Charm, possibly with Totemic access through Intelligence for Totem animals that communicate through scent trails (ants) or territorial claw markings (cats, bears) or such.


                      There should either be a Solar Linguistics Charm like Phantom-Conjuring Performance for producing images from nothing but Solar Essence, or else Performance's Phantom-Conjuring Performance should allow you to make Linguistics social influence actions in real-time.


                      Formerly Inugami, formerly Tornado Wolf.

                      My RWBY Blog on Tumblr: Semblances, Kingdoms, Grimm, and more!

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by BrilliantRain View Post
                        Generally speaking, if someone is trying to make a painting (or similar piece of art) in the game, that's probably a social action of some kind, most likely Inspire.
                        You can do this with Lunar charms.

                        Originally posted by Elfive
                        Clearly, we need even more Craft charms.
                        I think actually, yes, that's the answer.





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                        • #27
                          Linguistics does seem to be a good place to put in the plastic arts.

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