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Are Chickens viable familiars?

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  • #46
    Originally posted by Arteliex View Post
    ..........thanks to this thread...I have spent the last 3 days listening to yodeling videos....

    orz ...help...

    My work here is done...


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    • #47
      Originally posted by AnubisXy View Post

      You realize that with those stats, your chicken would absolutely destroy your average farmer, right?
      How figure? Your average farmer would probably be using the Brigand/Conscript/Militia template and would have higher Damage, Soak, and Evasion, Parry, and Join Battle. They also have more health levels and don't run away by default when attacked. The only thing the chicken has as an advantage in combat over your regular person is it can run away better and stealth. Besides, like I said, I lifted the stats from a raiton (which is supposed to represent a small bird) and re-titled their "Flight" die pool into "Finding Food" and changed out the Carrion Hunter Merit for "Yellow Skinned Defense" and added "Egg Layer" as a latent ability. Also and furthermore.....

      I missed something....


      Am I doing that thing where I take a comment too seriously and let the joke go over my head? Let me check....

      Yep. That's what I'm doing. I'll shut up now and laugh as intended.


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      • #48
        Originally posted by Demac View Post
        How figure? Your average farmer would probably be using the Brigand/Conscript/Militia template…
        Why? Brigand has actual weapons and armor and training, even if all of those are minimal. The farmer has none of these things (nor should he need them to handle a chicken).

        Originally posted by Demac View Post
        They also have more health levels…
        Factually false. Absent the ability to take Ox-Body Technique and the like, or the one granted by the Giant merit, humans don't get more health levels.

        Originally posted by Demac View Post
        I'll shut up now and laugh as intended.
        It may have been framed humorously, but AnubisXy wasn't joking when they implied that the chicken-as-statted would destroy a typical farmer in Creation, who probably doesn't even have the Brawl and Dodge dots Anubis graciously gave him.

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        • #49
          I think it's fair to give a player-familiar chicken raiton-like stats for the same reason that it's fair to fully-stat a farmer's son while treating the farmer as a Trivial Opponent. Narrative importance does that.


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          • #50
            Originally posted by TheCountAlucard View Post
            Why? Brigand has actual weapons and armor and training, even if all of those are minimal. The farmer has none of these things (nor should he need them to handle a chicken).
            Because the description for that QC would says they have "little to no training" and "would rather go back to their farms and shops than fight." They are obviously supposed to represent farmers who have been conscripted.


            Originally posted by TheCountAlucard View Post
            Factually false. Absent the ability to take Ox-Body Technique and the like, or the one granted by the Giant merit, humans don't get more health levels.
            Raitons (and by extension the chicken template I created) only have 5 health levels (they only have a single -1 and -2 health level where as humans get two of each). 5<7. I am actually, factually correct.


            Originally posted by TheCountAlucard View Post
            It may have been framed humorously, but AnubisXy wasn't joking when they implied that the chicken-as-statted would destroy a typical farmer in Creation, who probably doesn't even have the Brawl and Dodge dots Anubis graciously gave him.
            First of all, the farmer as describe is very bad at his job. Chicken coups are completely enclosed pins and they’re usually allow for high visibility of the livestock so as to make counting them easier. If the chicken isn’t taking a -5 penalty to stealth rolls while it’s in its coop, then he really screwed up the design of his coop.

            Additional indicators that the farmer is very bad at his job include:
            1. Not luring the chickens out of hiding with food. They have low resolve and guile so any farmer worth their salt should be able to figure out what their basic intimacies are and manipulate the animal.
            2. He only has one chicken and he’s planning to kill it. What’s his plan for food tomorrow? If he has 6 chickens, then we’re talking about a size 1 battle group of chickens who can’t do decisive attacks.
            3. He apparently bred a chicken that decided to ambush a human instead of run away when attacked. Those descriptions on how animals behave in the QC are important to assess an animal's relative power level. So by ignoring the text that says the animal runs away when attack, you're
            4. Having 0 applicable specialties related to chickens despite it being something he presumably does to stay alive.
            5. He tried to catch a chicken using his bare hands. Even this guy would be laughing at him. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Ze8isrUKlw. If Joe the farmer raises chickens to eat then surly he can make a simple lightweight tool to do it, even if he had to whittle it from a branch. It could have as simple as having the brawl and grappling tags with a special tag that reduces bonus given to evasion from the “Tiny Creature” merit when the attacker initiates a grappling gambit.
            So the guy described isn't your average chicken farmer. The guy described is an idiot with no experience handling chickens who thinks an animal that's obviously been specially trained is an average broiler chicken.

            But that being said, You even pointed out that his math didn't add up since he did not factor in light weapon stats and the fact that Farmer Joe's player wouldn't have made decisive grappling gambits with so little initiative. So lets break down this down how this SHOULD play out if the average farmer really does try and do something this dumb.


            Originally posted by AnubisXy View Post

            One afternoon Joe the Farmer goes out to his chicken coup to grab one for dinner. The chicken chooses to hide, because it doesn't want to get eaten. It rolls 6 dice to Stealth. Joe tries to spot it, but with an average of 2 Perception and 1 Awareness, he's rolling 3 dice. He looks and looks but he can't find the chicken anywhere. Then, once he lowers his guard, the chicken suddenly leaps from the shadows to attack him!

            Joe has a total of 3 dice in his Wits + Awareness pool and scores 1 success. The chicken has 4 dice and manages to score 2 successes. Joe's Initiative is 4 and the Chicken's is at 5.

            The chicken chooses to launch an immediate Decisive Attack against Joe, rolling 6 dice to land the hit. Joe's Evasion score is normally 2 (he has a Dexterity rating of 2 and a Dodge rating of 1, and 3/2 rounded up is 2). Unfortunately for Joe, the Chicken is attacking from Stealth, so Joe's Evasion is reduced by 2 against this attack to a total of 0. The chicken rolls 2 successes and then rolls its 5 Initiative pool as a decisive attack, and scores 2 successes. Joe takes 2 points of damage, giving him a -1 dice penalty on all rolls and a -1 penalty on all static pools. The chicken's Initiative is reset to 3.

            Joe curses the stupid chicken and reaches out to grab the dumb thing. He has a Dexterity of 2 and a Brawl of 1 - he's been in a few bar fights in his time. Unfortunately, with his -1 penalty, he's only rolling 2 dice and the chicken has an Evasion score of 3. Joe misses.
            So if you think that Joe's player wouldn't be doing a decisive attack with only 4 initiative, then you need need to treat this as a withering attack with the light weapon stat bar. That means, +4 to the accuracy and +7 damage. So he's actually going to be rolling 6 dice which comes out to 3 successes on average which means his average withering attack will hit for 0 extra successes. So add his strength to the damage and subtract 1 for the penalty (I'm assuming strength 2) and we're talking 7 dice of withering damage after soak which comes out to 3 initiative damage. Joe goes up 4 initiative (1 from the hit and 3 from the damage). Chicken little goes down to 0 initiative which puts it into initiative crash preventing it from doing further decisive damage. Joe will go up 5 more initiative from putting the chicken into initiative crash.

            At that point the rest of the scenario as written breaks down.

            Second round: Joe has 13 initiative. Chicken has 0. So Joe goes first. Joe's player probably wants to put chicken further into initiative crash and uses another withering attack which will likely have similar results. Joe goes up 4, Chicken Little goes down 3. At this point the Chicken Little has been attacked twice and according to the rules in the QC it should start running around the coop like the sky is falling, but the coop's not going to be large enough to get out of close range. So it might do a withering attack where it will have 4 dice where if it will likely have 4 dice of damage roll resulting in 2 initiative damage (for a net gain of 3) and a net loss of initiative to Joe of 2.

            Rinse wash and repeat. The cycle basically means that on average, Joe will end the round with 2 more initiative than when he started it and Chicken Little will stay the same. It also means that Joe will constantly stay higher in the initiative order than Chicken Little which means that everytime Chicken Little comes out of initiative crash and resets to base, Joe will be there to knock it back into crash. This will either result in Joe having enough initiative to start making decisive attacks with little danger of harm, the GM declaring the Chicken a trivial opponent and Joe will incapacitate it in a couple of rounds, or the GM simply declaring that the chicken is now an initiative battery and is effectively defeated.

            All because the idiot chicken farmer decided to try and kill a chicken in the worst possible way.
            Last edited by Demac; 03-13-2017, 02:15 PM.


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            I like the Mesoamerican look.

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            • #51
              Okay, that's clearer - when I read your post, I thought you were advocating using Brigand stats because the brigand would somehow mysteriously have more health levels than the typical farmer. I can now see that wasn't the way you'd intended it to be read.

              ​Also yes, the chicken is acting atypically, as is the farmer. Mashing two statblocks at one another and just assuming everyone rolls average is, itself, atypical (save, it seems, on forum arguments). I never disputed that.

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              • #52
                It was a joke with some intentional rules flubbing because I liked the idea of a ninja-chicken leaping out of the shadows to fuck a farmer up. Sorry for that.

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                • #53
                  Originally posted by TheCountAlucard View Post
                  Okay, that's clearer - when I read your post, I thought you were advocating using Brigand stats because the brigand would somehow mysteriously have more health levels than the typical farmer. I can now see that wasn't the way you'd intended it to be read.
                  I can see that. I should have clarified that I was comparing it to the chicken's/raiton's stats, not the stats given in the hypothetical.


                  I have created a character creation tool. The thread talking about the tool can be found here.

                  I like the Mesoamerican look.

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                  • #54
                    Originally posted by AnubisXy View Post
                    It was a joke with some intentional rules flubbing because I liked the idea of a ninja-chicken leaping out of the shadows to fuck a farmer up. Sorry for that.

                    No need to apologize. I thought it was hilarious. I was just pointing out that it bordered more on the "absurd" side of humor rather than the "funny cause it's true" side. While I was writing my response, I was thinking about a guy who trained chickens as assassins because... ah... why not?


                    I have created a character creation tool. The thread talking about the tool can be found here.

                    I like the Mesoamerican look.

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