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Glorious Solar Plate + MA

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  • Glorious Solar Plate + MA

    Let's say a character uses a MA style that only permits medium armor. So the character uses his medium armor but then he learns GSP which upgrades his current armor. Would the use of GSP violate the MA armor limitations, or would it be kinda legal to use it this way?

    What say you?


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  • #2
    Seems fair to me. It isn't actually making it heavy armor it's just magically empowering it so that it is as strong as heavy armor.

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    • #3
      I would say it violates the MA rules. The MA restrictions are fairly meaningful to game balance, and I don't think a single charm should bypass them that easily.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Totentanz View Post
        I would say it violates the MA rules. The MA restrictions are fairly meaningful to game balance, and I don't think a single charm should bypass them that easily.
        Would this objection extend to any scene-long or better Charm that provides defensive bonuses, not just armor, or is your objection purely about upgrading armor classes?


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        • #5
          Wouldn't it be less a big deal to simply change the charm to granting Artifact Medium armor? I'd sooner change the rules of a charm which (imo) should better sent the Exalt rather than changing the nature 9f the martial art and it's aesthetics.


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          • #6
            GSP only counts as heavy armour if you use it on it's own. When you're wearing something else it upgrades the traits of that armour, not it's class.

            You're not going to be hindered by a bunch of cosmic runes.

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            • #7
              Here is a thought experiment:

              Scenario 1: My Snake Style martial artist is wearing a gi, and no armor. She uses GSP and is now wearing heavy armor. So it's not compatible with her Snake Style Charms. This is pretty clear cut.

              Scenario 2: My Snake Style martial artist puts on a buff jacket, which is light armor. She uses GSP. Is she all good now?

              I would say no, for the simple reason that the obvious outcome of ruling "yes" would be to nonsensically require my unarmored martial artist to put on armor so as to be considered less heavily armored than she would be by not wearing armor in the first place. That's bizarre and ridiculous on its face. It is an unintended outcome. It plainly undermines the purpose of Style-specific armor requirements. It is clearly an attempt to exploit a loophole for mechanical advantage, and it does so at the cost of having the character behave in-universe in a nonsensical manner.

              GSP is unlike other Soak-enhancing Charms because it creates armored soak (and it does this by literally creating armor - specifically armor of the Heavy class). Armored soak is treated differently by the rules, and therefore you can't just handwave it as being the same as, say, natural Soak boosters. It's armor. If the armor that it creates has all the traits of Heavy armor, then it is heavy armor. The clause permitting you to "upgrade" armor you wear with cosmic runes is clearly included so that players can retain their PC's signature look while still benefiting from the Charm. It is not there to require characters to engage in some weird equipment tango so that they can combine heavy armor with Martial Arts Styles that disallow heavy armor.

              If you really want to wear medium armor and use GSP for an upgrade, then houserule it to allow the Charm to upgrade that armor to Medium Artifact Armor. But no, you don't get to cheat the class and then claim it's not a cheat. It is.


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              • #8
                I agree with Totentanz and Ferryman. The armor restriction rule is fairly important to Martial Arts and it would feel nonsensical to allow players to bypass that. And Ferryman's example of the Snake Style Martial Artist hit's exactly what I was feeling was wrong with this when I first saw it.

                Still, at the same time I think that RAW (rules as written) Glorious Solar Plate would allow a martial artist to upgrade their armor to Heavy and still be able to use it in conjunction with martial arts (even if it is nonsensical). It says it upgrades the traits of the armor, it doesn't actually change the armors type. As an ST though I wouldn't allow it to fly my table, even if the Charm is specifically written that way.

                If Glorious Solar Plate does allow Martial Artists use a Charm to effectively bypass MA restrictions on armor, then honestly I would just as soon remove all armor restrictions from MA in the first place.

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                • #9
                  How is this nonsensical?

                  If you use GSP while unarmoured, it constructs a massive suit of armour out of raw essence. If you use it with light armour, it merely strengthens it, taking on the best qualities of the magical essence form and the regular armour used as a base.

                  Said qualities include being able to do martial arts in it.

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                  • #10
                    Does it explicitly say that upgraded armour stays whatever weight class it is? Otherwise I'm inclined to believe that 'upgrading to the stats of heavy artefact armour' includes the weight class.

                    So in whatever way you use GSP, you end up in heavy armour.



                    I thank the Devs for the great game of Exalted!

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by BjornTheFellhanded View Post
                      Does it explicitly say that upgraded armour stays whatever weight class it is? Otherwise I'm inclined to believe that 'upgrading to the stats of heavy artefact armour' includes the weight class.

                      So in whatever way you use GSP, you end up in heavy armour.
                      It says "traits" then lists Soak, mobility penalty and Hardness in parenthesis.

                      I'm in the camp that I don't think it's a hugely good idea, but it does at least appear to be raw.


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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Elkovash View Post
                        It says "traits" then lists Soak, mobility penalty and Hardness in parenthesis.

                        I'm in the camp that I don't think it's a hugely good idea, but it does at least appear to be raw.
                        It's possibly RAW, but if I was ST, I'd rule Mobility Penalty as being the key factor: If it inhibits movement the same way heavy armour does, it is heavy armour.


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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by BjornTheFellhanded View Post
                          Does it explicitly say that upgraded armour stays whatever weight class it is? Otherwise I'm inclined to believe that 'upgrading to the stats of heavy artefact armour' includes the weight class.

                          So in whatever way you use GSP, you end up in heavy armour.
                          Let me quote the actual text to avoid any confusion.

                          The Solar bends her anima into a suit of armor in the form
                          of hardened sunfire, bearing all the glorious colors of Solar
                          anima. This armor has stats identical to artifact heavy
                          armor (+11 soak, 10 hardness, -2 mobility), and if the Exalt
                          has mastered the Armored Scout’s Invigoration, Glorious
                          Solar Plate activates its effects for free.

                          Glorious Solar Plate may graft itself over a suit of armor,
                          appearing as a series of interlinked cosmic runes that describe
                          the ascent of the Unconquered Sun to the zenith
                          of heaven at the birth of the universe. This upgrades the
                          armor’s traits if they are lesser than that of Glorious Solar
                          Plate, and adds the armor-enhancing powers of this Charm
                          to the Lawgiver’s current set. If the Solar’s current armor
                          is attuned, grafting Glorious Solar Plate onto it replaces
                          the commitment cost, releasing the attuned motes.
                          So it upgrades the armor's traits if they are lesser. This means if you have armor with a 0 mobility penalty, you wouldn't change that. You only change them if the new Heavy Armor value is higher than the value of your old armor (and 0 Mobility is greater than -2 Mobility).

                          So if you have Light Artifact Armor with +5 Soak, 4 Hardness and a 0 Mobility Penalty, after activating GSP you'll have Light Artifact Armor with +11 Soak, 10 Hardness and a 0 Mobility Penalty.

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                          • #14
                            Seems legit. I'm still not sure I like the idea of the armour resistance tree combining with martial arts that aren't meant to include armour. Aren't there unarmoured resistance charms specifically for that?


                            I thank the Devs for the great game of Exalted!

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                            • #15
                              It doesn't get around Martial Arts disallowing Armor entirely---it just gets around Armor weight restrictions.
                              Unless it does and I'm reading it wrong.


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