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  • MMN 13/03 Comments Speculation

    So yeah, what do you guys think they are going to announce for Ex3?

    RichT comments for appreciation:

    "A couple things about Exalted: first, we’ll be saying a few things about the line in the weeks to come that should ease some concerns about releases."


    "First off, you’ve been given the facts as they became available to us. Yes, we took responsibility and apologized, but now that’s a bad thing? Second, I agree about it being a time for action. We have no intention of continuing EX3 as things have gone. However, if you expect us to drop five completed books in your lap this month, then let me tell you right now that that is not going to happen. We can present a plan, and then tell you how that plan is designed to fix things, but work still needs to be done and that takes time."

  • #2
    No clue. Some kind of change, maybe. New order for releases?

    I could imagine potentially bringing on a third developer or putting together a team to assist the current developers with seeing through some of the upcoming releases. Something like what happened with Rose bringing on Danielle to help with Vampire, though I don't imagine Holden & Morke wouldn't be in charge or guiding the creative vision of what comes next.

    The more radical version might involve one or both of them stepping down to writer's positions while a new person becomes the developer.

    I want whatever is best for the line. I think Mørke‏ and Holden have a clarity of vision for how things should be that I absolutely have faith in, so if some assistance is needed to get there, I'm okay with that. I just hope that whatever happens or whatever changes in the plan going forward doesn't compromise the ideas they've put forward, as I do think the ideas they've had and implemented have been good ones, even if we might quibble over mechanical things.
    Last edited by Leetsepeak; 03-14-2017, 11:34 PM.


    Leetsepeak's Ex3 Homebrew Hub - Hub of homebrew for Exalted 3rd Edition that I've made.

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    • #3
      A change to the way kickstarters are handled.

      Specifically i expect it will be announced that going forward kickstarters for Exalted won't be started until the book is largely completed.

      And then a rough estimate for the DB book for when the Kickstarter is happening.


      Odd_Canuck is not a topical medication or food product and is not to be taken internally or seriously.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Odd_Canuck View Post
        A change to the way kickstarters are handled.

        Specifically i expect it will be announced that going forward kickstarters for Exalted won't be started until the book is largely completed.

        And then a rough estimate for the DB book for when the Kickstarter is happening.
        This sounds pretty grounded, although I dunno about how likely it is to get an estimate for the DB book kickstarter. An announcement about a timetable for that will probably come later down the line, I think.


        Leetsepeak's Ex3 Homebrew Hub - Hub of homebrew for Exalted 3rd Edition that I've made.

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        • #5
          Well, they already told us that they aren't launching any more Kickstarters without having the complete text. So... I think they coud be announcing... the DB KS maybe? It is in second draft as far as we know. That sounds as a complete text... sorta.

          What I would like to hear though, is some kind of new and plausible strategy to asure at least two big releases per year. I know writing isn't easy, I know devs and freelancers have day jobs, I know they are people and face ups and downs. At this stage, I don't think any of us tries to oversee all those facts. But, it is true that we all, including writers, devs, and even RichT, want to see more Exalted.

          In fact in my dream-fantasy world I would very much like to hear that the art in the books will be reduced to just a couple of illustrations to avoid the dreadful wait for sketches and approvals, etc. If I recall correctly, I think Holden spoke about how everything that could go wrong with the art process went wrong. So I say... recycle Ex2 and Ex1 art, if those are off-limits, don't put art in the books at all and just keep the text flowing. I know nobody's gonna like this option, but I can at least dream.


          Join the Strife

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Gonzo View Post

            In fact in my dream-fantasy world I would very much like to hear that the art in the books will be reduced to just a couple of illustrations to avoid the dreadful wait for sketches and approvals, etc. If I recall correctly, I think Holden spoke about how everything that could go wrong with the art process went wrong. So I say... recycle Ex2 and Ex1 art, if those are off-limits, don't put art in the books at all and just keep the text flowing. I know nobody's gonna like this option, but I can at least dream.
            I don't think this would really be fair to EX3 as a gameline, it should hold a more prominent position in the industry than it does IMO. I think the release schedule is already hurting it and substandard/recycled art would do even more damage. I already wasn't very happy with the art in the EX3 core, it felt really disjointed and without direction.

            That said the art there was in Miracles of the Solar Exalted was better I think, and the previews we have had of the quickstart are yet even better. I can't honestly say the 2e art was of higher quality, but it had a coherency that as of know has only been hinted at in EX3.

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            • #7
              I'm deeply concerned. We're already two and a half months into 2017, which sounds like a lot of time left but not really. Let's say we get something in three weeks from Rich saying that they have a new plan in place and everything is working smoothly.

              At that point they have eight months to finish writing the book, doing revisions of charmsets and stuff, pass it through editing, which takes a long time for a book that size, then they have to source art, approve art, request changes to art, which takes a damn long time especially if it's colour which I really hope it is, then they have to do layout, then go through and replace "see page (xx)", then final pass and approval by the higher ups. If each of those steps takes a, relatively, incredibly short time of one month then we'll just get the backer PDF by December.

              Now realize that unless the release schedule gets revised we have to do that for, not one, but two other albeit smaller, books before that. It's why I say that "coming 2017" draconic page in our books was a damn bold move. If it comes out 2018 that page will be a source for endless jokes.

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              • #8
                I think a good thing to keep in mind is that Onyx Path does not shift a project from one stage to the next until all the parts are done. So it's very possible that if something like the second draft of the Charms chapter has been a source of continuous frustration, other chapters may have been finished some time ago which are just waiting for the charms section to get plugged in to move on.

                Really the point of this is to say that I wouldn't look at it being in Second Draft and assume that a chokepoint means that no other work has been done on the other parts which aren't held up, though we'll see how things go.


                Leetsepeak's Ex3 Homebrew Hub - Hub of homebrew for Exalted 3rd Edition that I've made.

                Comment


                • #9
                  It's worrying. If they can speed up releases without in any way reducing the quality of the books, great! But that's not a particularly realistic thing to promise. I could play 3e with just the core book and homebrew for the rest of my life, I don't need more stuff right away. I would much rather they took the time and care to make all the future books just as good as the core than rush out crappy products.


                  Infernals - To Rule in Hell (complete first draft)
                  3e Dragon Kings (complete)
                  My martial arts (includes Eye of Heaven, White Veil, Obsidian Shards and more)

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                  • #10
                    Well I'll see about dropping a book out this month at least, so hey that's 1/5 of the way there!


                    Read my shit at my homebrew topic, 2.5e and 3e material!
                    Play Alchemical's in 3e now, you're welcome.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by TGUEIROS View Post
                      So yeah, what do you guys think they are going to announce for Ex3?

                      RichT comments for appreciation:

                      "A couple things about Exalted: first, we’ll be saying a few things about the line in the weeks to come that should ease some concerns about releases."


                      "First off, you’ve been given the facts as they became available to us. Yes, we took responsibility and apologized, but now that’s a bad thing? Second, I agree about it being a time for action. We have no intention of continuing EX3 as things have gone. However, if you expect us to drop five completed books in your lap this month, then let me tell you right now that that is not going to happen. We can present a plan, and then tell you how that plan is designed to fix things, but work still needs to be done and that takes time."
                      I'm glad there are changes in the works, but I can see why people are anxious/pushing to hear more. There is kinda a track record being told "changes are coming", "we want to do better", "you will hear more from the Devs soon" but nothing supporting those statements as a follow up to validate them as more than lip service.

                      That sounds more pessimistic than I really want it to sound, there is no doubt in my mind that a lot of lessons have been learned. I don't think there will be problems with the DB kickstarter like there were with Solars because I can already see the changes made in other kickstarters like Scion. The frustration more lies in still not seeing those changes evident in Exalted, the gameline still feels as opaque and glacial as it did in the bad old days of the kickstarter delays.

                      There was a kinda optimism in the release of the backer PDF more than a year ago. Like that would break the floodgates, the devs would talk to us again and start doing the promised dev blogs, the schedule would accelerate now that the backbone of the system was complete, and regular releases would be the norm. But as of yet that hasn't happened and untill it has promises of change will feel as hollow as they did one...two... and again three years ago.

                      I don't doubt the possibility of a path forward, but untill we see the first steps on it in actuality and not suggestion, I totally understand why pessimism remains.

                      -Charlie Brown chasing that football...

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                      • #12
                        I'm about 99% sure this is gonna tie in, in some way, with the Zak S thing. I'm also 99% sure that it's not good news, and they are just looking for a way to broach it. Screenshot this post. Mark my words.


                        Incentive is not permission or justification.

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                        • #13
                          The unfortunate circumstances around it and the poor handling of the Zak S situation nonwithstanding, nothing about the matter had to do with Exalted directly so I'm not sure where that negative assumption comes from. Seems abrupt to say that.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by SpruceStripedGoose View Post

                            I'm glad there are changes in the works, but I can see why people are anxious/pushing to hear more. There is kinda a track record being told "changes are coming", "we want to do better", "you will hear more from the Devs soon" but nothing supporting those statements as a follow up to validate them as more than lip service.

                            That sounds more pessimistic than I really want it to sound, there is no doubt in my mind that a lot of lessons have been learned. I don't think there will be problems with the DB kickstarter like there were with Solars because I can already see the changes made in other kickstarters like Scion. The frustration more lies in still not seeing those changes evident in Exalted, the gameline still feels as opaque and glacial as it did in the bad old days of the kickstarter delays.

                            There was a kinda optimism in the release of the backer PDF more than a year ago. Like that would break the floodgates, the devs would talk to us again and start doing the promised dev blogs, the schedule would accelerate now that the backbone of the system was complete, and regular releases would be the norm. But as of yet that hasn't happened and untill it has promises of change will feel as hollow as they did one...two... and again three years ago.

                            I don't doubt the possibility of a path forward, but untill we see the first steps on it in actuality and not suggestion, I totally understand why pessimism remains.

                            -Charlie Brown chasing that football...
                            Not to pile on with this, but I think one of the more frustrating aspects of this trend is Rich's lack of acknowledgment of specifically Exalted's lack of Transparency in relation to other WW or OPP projects.

                            "We give lots of information. Far more information than we ever gave back in the day at WW, and we’ve been lauded here and in other social media for how much we are sharing these days. Just not a release date until the project is actually ready for release."

                            This comment was made in response to concerns about EX3 on the MM notes but I think we can all agree that Exalted has not been the most open of open developments as was initially promised. And constantly hearing Rich talk about how open OPP is now, I can't ever help but fill in the end with "except for Exalted". I really hope this upcoming announcement addresses this concern, considering how popular open development trends have been recently with OPP projects like Scion.

                            (Note, the above comment may have been specifically addressing things like timetables as opposed to open development, but it felt like a continuation of the trend of information blackouts related to Exalted development.)
                            Last edited by TheGraySoul; 03-15-2017, 01:38 PM.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by ParanoiaCombo View Post
                              I'm about 99% sure this is gonna tie in, in some way, with the Zak S thing. I'm also 99% sure that it's not good news, and they are just looking for a way to broach it. Screenshot this post. Mark my words.
                              Who is Zak S? I may have missed this drama.

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