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  • #91
    Originally posted by LVTHN View Post
    I don't even know what your argument is, at this point. How, exactly, were the leaks bad? Because the leaker broke the law? Okay, whatever, send him to prison.

    Every element of my experience suggests that the leaks themselves provided proof that the game was, in fact, progressing to a finished form. It was not irrational to call Ex3 vaporware when there was only fragmentary evidence that the game actually existed, some two odd years after the kickstarter which claimed that the game was nearly finished.
    The leak was bad becaues a) it required breaking a binding agreement to make happen and b) it went against the developers wishes. That's all the reason needed to make it bad.
    You ask someone not to do a thing, and they promise not to do it. Then they do it. That's bad. End of Story.

    Whether or not the result was a boon or a hindrance is besides the point. It is not the approach the developers wanted, and it was their decision to make.

    If you don't trust OOP to the point where you disbelieve their official statements, what was OOP supposed to do to change your mind? You've already decided that they were lying to you. Were you a backer? If so, why'd you back a company who's word you don't trust? Weren't you? In that case, what the company says shouldn't have mattered until the book was out for sale, at which point: there is the product.

    If you're a backer, yes. OOP, in my opinion, should have done more to keep you assured the project was moving (as backers are closer to investors than customers), but otherwise, OOP didn't owe you any proof or explanation. But even then, it was OOP's choice on how to placate impatient backers, and the leak was not in any way a favour to them.



    I thank the Devs for the great game of Exalted!

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    • #92
      The leak was directly responsible for a sizable portion of Ex3's delays, and likely still is. I would recommend against further insinuations by anyone that the leak was in any way, shape, or form anything even resembling a positive thing.

      *drops mic*


      "Won't you believe in him? Even if there is no God, or Buddha...there is still Kamen Rider." —Taki Kazuya, Kamen Rider SPIRITS

      Now...count up all your sins.

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      • #93
        I don't know about anyone else, but I do know 3 of my old gaming friends who thought the leak was a good thing.

        They were on the verge of demanding the return of their money for the Kickstarter due to frustration over the delay. When they first signed up for the Kickstarter they had done so under the impression that the book was in a near-finished state and would be shipped fall 2013. By this point it was already a year later and they still had nothing to show for it. They were starting to feel very ripped off and upset. Then the leak came out around that time, they saw that not only that the game was being worked on, but it was pretty fun and cool. Instead of withdrawing money, they got excited about Exalted again for the first time in many years.

        I have little doubt that if the leak hadn't come out around when it did, those three would have done everything they could have to get their money back, and then another couple of years down the road when 3rd edition did finally come out, they would no longer have cared or, worse, Exalted would have become a black name to them.

        Instead I know at least one of them is currently running an Exalted 3rd edition campaign, and I've seen him occasionally post on rpg.net and a few other places in defense of 3rd edition.

        Like many things, the leak brought a lot of harm, but there's no doubt there were also some silver linings and some people might have been very appreciative of the fact that it demonstrably showed that they weren't just being strung along.

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        • #94
          Originally posted by AnubisXy View Post
          I don't know about anyone else, but I do know 3 of my old gaming friends who thought the leak was a good thing.

          They were on the verge of demanding the return of their money for the Kickstarter due to frustration over the delay. When they first signed up for the Kickstarter they had done so under the impression that the book was in a near-finished state and would be shipped fall 2013. By this point it was already a year later and they still had nothing to show for it. They were starting to feel very ripped off and upset. Then the leak came out around that time, they saw that not only that the game was being worked on, but it was pretty fun and cool. Instead of withdrawing money, they got excited about Exalted again for the first time in many years.

          I have little doubt that if the leak hadn't come out around when it did, those three would have done everything they could have to get their money back, and then another couple of years down the road when 3rd edition did finally come out, they would no longer have cared or, worse, Exalted would have become a black name to them.

          Instead I know at least one of them is currently running an Exalted 3rd edition campaign, and I've seen him occasionally post on rpg.net and a few other places in defense of 3rd edition.

          Like many things, the leak brought a lot of harm, but there's no doubt there were also some silver linings and some people might have been very appreciative of the fact that it demonstrably showed that they weren't just being strung along.
          That's an incidental anecdote. It was, as far as I understand, not the intended outcome by anyone involved and doesn't excuse the breach of trust in any case.

          You don't assume control of someone else's PR duties without their approval. Maybe you know better than them, but you probably don't. Even if you do, it's their right to choose how to do it.


          I thank the Devs for the great game of Exalted!

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          • #95
            Originally posted by BjornTheFellhanded View Post
            That's an incidental anecdote. It was, as far as I understand, not the intended outcome by anyone involved and doesn't excuse the breach of trust in any case.

            You don't assume control of someone else's PR duties without their approval. Maybe you know better than them, but you probably don't. Even if you do, it's their right to choose how to do it.
            While I'm certainly not defending the or excusing the breach of trust, I'm just saying that the incident did have a few silver linings and there were couple of positive outcomes, even if the leak itself was pretty messed up.

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            • #96
              Originally posted by AnubisXy View Post
              While I'm certainly not defending the or excusing the breach of trust, I'm just saying that the incident did have a few silver linings and there were couple of positive outcomes, even if the leak itself was pretty messed up.
              I think the proportional scale of advantages and disadvantages is important. Having someone stab you repeatedly with a shiv and then leave it in you does indeed give you the upside of a free shiv, but generally it's not something even remotely worth the damage the exchange did.


              Odd_Canuck is not a topical medication or food product and is not to be taken internally or seriously.

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              • #97
                Originally posted by AnubisXy View Post

                While I'm certainly not defending the or excusing the breach of trust, I'm just saying that the incident did have a few silver linings and there were couple of positive outcomes, even if the leak itself was pretty messed up.
                Yeah, this is a situation where the goremaul did hit you in the face, but at least it didn't roll max damage.


                I thank the Devs for the great game of Exalted!

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                • #98
                  Originally posted by BjornTheFellhanded View Post
                  That's an incidental anecdote.
                  There's like 15 posters in this thread, of whom 3-4 are saying the leak of the full PDF brought them and/or their gaming groups back to Ex3. Given how tiny our community is, that's actually steering pretty close to a valid sample size, and you can add my name to the list of people who came back because of the leaked PDF.


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                  • #99
                    "People that would have got into the game if we had the opportunity to properly capitalize on the hype of mountains of new shiny stuff, but didn't because the leak severely diminished that" is an unknown, though.

                    I had plenty of faith in the product, so the leak was nothing but a crime as far as I'm concerned.

                    Also "people who keep trying to portray my hard work being stolen and my trust being broken in a positive light" would be a considerable point in keeping me me away from my hypothetical fanbase. I doubt the devs and writers particularly enjoy it either.


                    You need a picture altered to fit your Exalted character, or just looking for some visual inspiration? Check out the twice-reborn Exaltification thread. And here is my Deviantart page

                    Søren Kierkegaard + Kim Kardashian = Brilliance

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                    • Originally posted by Korhal_IV View Post

                      There's like 15 posters in this thread, of whom 3-4 are saying the leak of the full PDF brought them and/or their gaming groups back to Ex3. Given how tiny our community is, that's actually steering pretty close to a valid sample size, and you can add my name to the list of people who came back because of the leaked PDF.
                      Beyond the whole dichotomy of forum users vs rest of fanbase that does not use forums stuff, which is pretty immaterial really. There is still the whole factor that someone finding silver lining in the shitty situation still doesn't change what is pertinent, which is it was a shitty situation that shouldn't have happened in the first place. No amount of anecdotes makes up for that period of justifies breaking a legal agreement to leak intellectual property. THAT is relevant.

                      Take Totentanz bullshit statement about "poor little me." No amount of justification makes up for things like accusing someone of lying about their medical condition and scare and claiming that stuff like the go fund me was just a smokescreen to get money out of people. If selective memory out of awful situations is the best argument that people can make, you're not being terribly convincing and giving quite a lot of ammunition towards the opposite.
                      Last edited by TyrannicalRabbit; 03-18-2017, 02:20 AM.


                      “As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.”

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