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Abyssals and Gods

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  • Colognian
    started a topic Abyssals and Gods

    Abyssals and Gods

    How is the standing between Abyssals and Gods?
    Is there enmity because Abyssals want to destroy all of creation?
    Might there be partnership for example between an Abyssal and a god of gore and bloodshed?
    Is it possible for Abyssals to summon / bind Gods?

  • nalak42
    replied
    Originally posted by CapitanTypo View Post

    Yeah, there's a lot about liminals - intriguing as they are - that doesn't seem entirely thought out.

    Sometimes 'mysterious' is just a cover for not knowing.
    To be fair that was a preview from several years back. Not really saying it's mysterious as a cover for not knowing so much as "this is the idea we've got right now. It's probably subject to change as this has a lot of time left to go in it's development."

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  • AnubisXy
    replied
    Originally posted by CapitanTypo View Post
    There's a big difference between resurrect and reanimate - and I think that's the difference i'm stuck on at the moment.
    I am certain that as we get more information on Liminals, their book will spend some time focusing on the difference between resurrection (which is impossible in the Exalted setting) and reanimation, which is totally possible and Necromancers and ghosts reanimate dead bodies all the time.

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  • TheCountAlucard
    replied
    Just a heads-up: in the original work, Frankenstein's monster wasn't made of corpses; Frankenstein made everything himself, presumably via alchemy.

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  • Aya Tari
    replied
    Strangely enough, I had something like the Liminal Exalted appear in one of my games five years ago. One of my Terrestrial Exalted players was a mad scientist type and decided that he would create a woman from the parts leftover from a Wyld Mutant attack. He had a level 5 healing artifact that I had designed for him during character creation that gave him access to a few Solar Medicine Charms, so I shrugged and I gave him an absurdly high difficulty. He succeeded and his creation ended up being his medical assistant.

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  • CapitanTypo
    replied
    Originally posted by nalak42 View Post
    I think an example Liminal from the preview doc was created by a forest god trying to make the perfect priestess for himself. So he had his priestesses slaughtered, cut up and then sewn back together with the intent of animating this "perfected priestess" and she would serve the way he was entitled to. Then of course the animation worked and well the resulting Liminal had the memories of those used to make it, but not being them decided to end the god instead of worshipping it.

    Granted this was back in the kickstarter, so the connection between Liminal and creator that's mentioned in the core might not have even been a consideration at the time.
    Yeah, there's a lot about liminals - intriguing as they are - that doesn't seem entirely thought out.

    Sometimes 'mysterious' is just a cover for not knowing.

    Leave a comment:


  • nalak42
    replied
    I think an example Liminal from the preview doc was created by a forest god trying to make the perfect priestess for himself. So he had his priestesses slaughtered, cut up and then sewn back together with the intent of animating this "perfected priestess" and she would serve the way he was entitled to. Then of course the animation worked and well the resulting Liminal had the memories of those used to make it, but not being them decided to end the god instead of worshipping it.

    Granted this was back in the kickstarter, so the connection between Liminal and creator that's mentioned in the core might not have even been a consideration at the time.

    Leave a comment:


  • marin
    replied
    Originally posted by CapitanTypo View Post
    There's a big difference between resurrect and reanimate - and I think that's the difference i'm stuck on at the moment.
    Most of this comes from the 3e What We Know wiki.

    The key concept of Liminal creation appears to be "attempts to bring life from death" - attempts to resurrect the dead, and attempts to create new life from the dead a la Frankenstein's monster. However, almost nobody sets out to create a Liminal - they're generally working on their own projects when the dark mother intervenes. She's the one who decides on the creation of a Liminal.

    They first appear in the Shogunate era, but are ruled out as being a reaction to the Usurpation. (From what hatewheel said, there appears to be a reason why they started being created, but it's not the Usurpation.)

    Hatewheel provided a Liminal opinion on Abyssals: Dangerous, alluring, confusing. My attraction to the vitality in this one will be my downfall.

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  • CapitanTypo
    replied
    Originally posted by AnubisXy View Post

    This came from earlier on. I remember Holden discussing a theoretical Liminal who was created by a Wood King who dismembered a dozen people, mixed up the body parts to make a single individual and then tried to reanimate it. He accidentally made a Liminal though.

    So dead is still dead. But sometimes when someone tries to resurrect the dead, something happens and you get Liminals. It's not that person. It's something else though it might be using that person's body and have a few of that person's memories.

    That said, I don't think that specifically attempts at resurrection are the only way that Liminals are created, but probably anything that would end up creating one involves the dark and unholy power of the Underworld in some way.

    There's a big difference between resurrect and reanimate - and I think that's the difference i'm stuck on at the moment.

    Leave a comment:


  • AnubisXy
    replied
    Originally posted by CapitanTypo View Post

    Where is that much even coming from?

    The core just says "made in madness, and born in death" and then talks about the Liminal having an indelible link to their creator and that when the creator (a living soul) dies then the Liminal starts to rot and become a monster. It implies a necromantic ritual, to be sure, but resurrection? Has 3rd ed done away with the "dead is dead is dead" metaphysical rule of creation?
    This came from earlier on. I remember Holden discussing a theoretical Liminal who was created by a Wood King who dismembered a dozen people, mixed up the body parts to make a single individual and then tried to reanimate it. He accidentally made a Liminal though.

    So dead is still dead. But sometimes when someone tries to resurrect the dead, something happens and you get Liminals. It's not that person. It's something else though it might be using that person's body and have a few of that person's memories.

    That said, I don't think that specifically attempts at resurrection are the only way that Liminals are created, but probably anything that would end up creating one involves the dark and unholy power of the Underworld in some way.

    Leave a comment:


  • CapitanTypo
    replied
    Originally posted by Aya Tari View Post
    Yes, but remember that 'dead is dead' in Exalted, so the Liminal Exalted are failed attempts at resurrection or successes of creation. In effect, they are resurrections or creations given Exaltation by the Dark Mother to allow them to live. Now, I think they could be very interesting, but we really know nothing about them except for a few pages in 3e.
    Sorry, I hadn't read your message before I replied above. I'm kind of leaning towards the 'success of creation', in large part because resurrection just ain't a thing in Creation. But that makes them a kind of Frankenstein's monster that can be created, I'm assuming, by the sacrifice of a living person to be the original brain, but that means someone creates a zombie-like exalted creature to police the incursion of the dead into creation? That part I struggle with. If we knew how long Liminals had been around it would help, because then we'd know if they are a recent creation, a product of the primordial war, or an abomination from before then (but then, do we even know if this version of creation has the 'there were no ghosts or underworld before the primordial war' element to the setting?)

    I do, however, have my plot hook for the introduction of a Liminal exalt into my game. A liminal seeks partnership and to be bound to a Solar exalt - because then their lifespan is going to be a hell of a lot longer, so the Liminal will become like a groupie/sidekick to the party until one of them agrees to bond with it.

    On a slightly more morbid thought, the details of Liminals in the back of the book talks about how it might take days or weeks to graft new limbs on, and that if just the brain survives then they can rebuild themselves.

    How the ever living f*ck does a brain, or even just a decapitated head, graft anything onto anything else? Does it just sit there on the side of the road waiting until a stranger passes by and asks them politely "have you got a spare corpse handy? oh, and can you sew?"

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  • CapitanTypo
    replied
    Originally posted by nalak42 View Post
    Liminals are created by various people attempting to ressurect the dead.
    Where is that much even coming from?

    The core just says "made in madness, and born in death" and then talks about the Liminal having an indelible link to their creator and that when the creator (a living soul) dies then the Liminal starts to rot and become a monster. It implies a necromantic ritual, to be sure, but resurrection? Has 3rd ed done away with the "dead is dead is dead" metaphysical rule of creation?

    Leave a comment:


  • Aya Tari
    replied
    Yes, but remember that 'dead is dead' in Exalted, so the Liminal Exalted are failed attempts at resurrection or successes of creation. In effect, they are resurrections or creations given Exaltation by the Dark Mother to allow them to live. Now, I think they could be very interesting, but we really know nothing about them except for a few pages in 3e.

    Leave a comment:


  • nalak42
    replied
    Originally posted by CapitanTypo View Post
    What about the relationship between Abyssals and Liminals?

    Abyssals come from solar exaltations corrupted by the death lords, while liminals are 'created' but we don't yet know by whom. And the liminal have references to hunting the dead in creation, so where do they stand on death knights?
    Liminals are created by various people attempting to ressurect the dead. Then the Dark Mother gets involved and all that. That said we don't really know enough about how the Abyssals work this time around to figure how they'll handle the Liminals and we know very little about how the Liminals tend to feel about anything, so yeah we're in the dark there.

    Leave a comment:


  • CapitanTypo
    replied
    What about the relationship between Abyssals and Liminals?

    Abyssals come from solar exaltations corrupted by the death lords, while liminals are 'created' but we don't yet know by whom. And the liminal have references to hunting the dead in creation, so where do they stand on death knights?

    Leave a comment:

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