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How are the corpse elements?

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  • How are the corpse elements?

    I can imagine an environment with the elements Ash, Blood and Bone. The trees are made of bone. Rivers are made of blood. The air is made of a dust of corpses. I can not imagine the Void element.

    I found the Pyre Flame element in SoFR Dragon King pg. 70.
    "PYRE FLAME: The green-hued pyre flame of the Underworld combines aspects of liquid fire and burning acid. It's rare enough that it's not a constant danger, but it's common enough that only new ghosts do not know their properties."

    What are the properties of the other elements? What is the rarity of each?

  • #2
    Well some of those elements change between editions. For example the earth equivilant for the Underworld in 2nd was void, but in 1st it was Jade.

    Bone and blood I think are literal. A lot of constructs in the underworld tend to be made using something's skeleton and when the undead leave the Underworld they need to feed on blood in order to "survive" the same way a living being needs water.

    Void, is usually defined as the abscense of anything in which case the best example of it is easy and even technically maps to the Underword being the shadow counterpart to Creation from 2nd. It's the giant gaping maw in the middle of the Labyrinth surrounded by the tombs of the Neverborn. You know Oblivion. Which makes it really rare seeing how it is the absence of all things.

    Not sure if there's anything else.

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    • #3
      At least back in 1st and 2nd edition, unlike Creation, the Underworld doesn't have Elemental Poles or anything. So while Bone may line up with Wood, it's not like the East in the Underworld is overly filled with bones. And it's definitely not like the Blessed Isle equivalent is subsumed by the Void element (which would be represented in Oblivion). Rather the 5 Underworld Elements were more of a philosophical concept and a way to explain the building blocks of the Underworld in comparison to the building blocks of Creation and not tangible things that define the enviornment like the 5 elements in Creation.

      Originally posted by MoEP: The Abyssals page 36
      ON UNDERWORLD CORRESPONDENCES
      The correspondence of the five Underworld “elements” to the directions they represent, as discussed in the Understandings, is purely metaphorical. The Underworld has no Elemental Pole of Ash. In fact, it has no elemental poles, period (though deathtainted versions of Creation’s elements dominate the Underworld’s North, South, East, West and Center). The Deathlords linked the Understandings to five elements to help new Abyssals remember the philosophy… and because people who love systems and theories put everything into sets of five and devise correspondences between them.
      This could all completely change in 3rd edition, though I think there will be some attempt to keep the concept of the Underworld elements in some form because the basic concept is kind of neat.

      For your own game purposes though, feel free to play up the idea of the Underworld elements as things which color the landscape. I certainly think having a direction covered by Ash or Bone would be pretty cool.

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      • #4
        Prayer replaces air, that is maybe the most ominous of the Underworld Elements.


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        • #5
          Originally posted by nalak42 View Post

          Void, is usually defined as the abscense of anything in which case the best example of it is easy and even technically maps to the Underword being the shadow counterpart to Creation from 2nd. It's the giant gaping maw in the middle of the Labyrinth surrounded by the tombs of the Neverborn. You know Oblivion. Which makes it really rare seeing how it is the absence of all things.

          Not sure if there's anything else.
          I now remembered Adorjan's four daughters for reference. The Void element exists immaterial and invisible but affects other things. Type a Higgs boson but it confers entropy.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by AnubisXy View Post
            At least back in 1st and 2nd edition, unlike Creation, the Underworld doesn't have Elemental Poles or anything. So while Bone may line up with Wood, it's not like the East in the Underworld is overly filled with bones. And it's definitely not like the Blessed Isle equivalent is subsumed by the Void element (which would be represented in Oblivion). Rather the 5 Underworld Elements were more of a philosophical concept and a way to explain the building blocks of the Underworld in comparison to the building blocks of Creation and not tangible things that define the enviornment like the 5 elements in Creation.
            MoEP: The Abyssals and SoFR: Dragon king make me like "ritual prayers" to manipulate the Void element. Perhaps, objects saturated with it have tha same properties as Soulsteel. It is detected by unusual anguish in the environment (people spend willpower to resist fear) or essence detection charms.

            Either way I plan to make the others elements as rare as the Pyre Flame element, to the point a novice ghost does not know.

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            • #7
              The Aspects of the Liminal Exalted are Blood, Flesh, Breath, Marrow, and Soil. Maybe those would work?

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Minty View Post
                The Aspects of the Liminal Exalted are Blood, Flesh, Breath, Marrow, and Soil. Maybe those would work?
                THAT is an excellent point! Headcanon accepted until proven otherwise!

                A cursory pass, I would align it this way:

                Blood = Water
                Flesh = Fire
                Breath = Air
                Marrow = Wood
                Soil = Earth
                Last edited by The Unsung Hero; 03-16-2017, 12:25 PM.


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                • #9
                  There is a 50% chance of change. If these are The new elements then we will also know the DRAGONS OF A DIFFERENT COLOR.

                  But I'm working with the possibility of being different.

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                  • #10
                    I think the whole point on the Underworld just not having consistent elements is that it's because it's not consistent. It's a realm of memory, emotion, narrative and death. So anything that's drawn as a correspondance is more there for flavor and aesthetic than really much about th eactual constituent parts of the Underworld.

                    It's worth nothing that the inconsistencies about in the corpse elements is in part because different authors at different times wanting different things. The original five in Exalted: the Abyssals return in the splat spreads for MoEP: Abyssals and are the basis for the aesthetics of Dragons of a Different Color (Prayer, Jade, Pyre Flame, Blood, Bone) are not those talked about in Chapter One of MoEP: Abyssals (Ash, Blood, Bone, Pyre Flame, Void) and are not those talked with Liminals.

                    I think in the case of inconsistences in 1e and 2e, it is in part just authors having different opinions on what fits. For the Abyssals associations, I think it was there purely for flavor. These are the things that make the Underworld "run" and so on. They're the iconic symbols that Exalted presented of the Underworld: An economy of prayer, jade and blood, built on foundations of the bones of the dead and lit the pyre flames (I think pyre flame is actually kind of forced to be honest). The whole philosophy thing brought up was I think kind of weird anyhow, to be hoenst. But it was at least honest on the corpse elements not really lining up with actual elements and poles and stuff.

                    I think in this context with Liminals it's worth noting that at some place Holden or hatewheel were pretty explicit that they were not supposed to be like the Dragon-Blooded associations. I think one can draw analogies to the five elemetns with their Aspects, but that's not an intent and it'll be forced on a couple of them (none really equate to fire, as an example).

                    And stuff.


                    And stuff.
                    Made signature by moderator request. Any actual typing of "And stuff." is out of habitual reflex.

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                    • #11
                      I agree. The Underworld is ectoplasm and Creation is elements. Despite this the Pyre Flame element is canonical in both editions. This information does not contradict itself.

                      I imagine that these exotic substances are the contaminated elements of Creation (MoEP: Abyssals pg 36). For that reason Dragon-Blooded were transformed into other colors by the Deliberative (DoFA: Lands of 41), Fire elementals were transformed into Pyre Flame elementals by Dragon King (SoFR: Dragon King pg 70).

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                      • #12
                        Three things made the configuration more dynamic:
                        1) Work of Magic. I can design different elements.
                        2) Exigent Exalted. I can design dragons of a different color.
                        3) Martial Arts. I can design Elementary Styles.

                        The corpse element is the most "natural" starting point.

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                        • #13
                          Going to randomly toss in "Fuck I hate how they made the Dragons fo a Differnet Color some First Age Solar eugenics project of DBs because of course Solars get to randomly genetically engineer DB lines like they were pets" bit.

                          Either way, I think there's nothing wrong with them being drawn on for aesthetics purposes. I just don't know if they need to be quantified metaphysically in order ot be used as such.

                          And stuff.


                          And stuff.
                          Made signature by moderator request. Any actual typing of "And stuff." is out of habitual reflex.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Blaque View Post
                            Going to randomly toss in "Fuck I hate how they made the Dragons fo a Differnet Color some First Age Solar eugenics project of DBs because of course Solars get to randomly genetically engineer DB lines like they were pets" bit.
                            Chejop: Well yeah they did, this is the kind of shit I was talking about!


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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by glamourweaver View Post

                              Chejop: Well yeah they did, this is the kind of shit I was talking about!
                              I think it's more an annoyance from a fluff standpoint that apparently DBs were populous enough and subservient enough to Solars to submit to genetic manipulation like they were a magic bonzai tree.

                              And stuff.


                              And stuff.
                              Made signature by moderator request. Any actual typing of "And stuff." is out of habitual reflex.

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