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  • #16
    I'm not sure if we need a distinct category for Charms that improve a Lunar's stolen form, as opposed to Charms that enhance the Lunar, period. A Charm that makes the Lunar's skin as hard as stone, or lets them run like the wind, or whatever, work just as well on a bear form as they do on their original human form.

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    • #17
      An interesting idea is that knacks could be something you could buy with (theoretical) Lunar XP if they're not classified as Lunar charms. Considering that Lunars are supposed to be less capable with Evocations and have a lower ceiling on Sorcery and Martial Arts, it could be nice to have that option.

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      • #18
        As they were I don't think keeping knacks would be a good idea. Though thinking off what Kunoichi said the idea of Lunars getting the knacks and being able to use them for say chimeric tricks might be interesting.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by nalak42 View Post
          As they were I don't think keeping knacks would be a good idea. Though thinking off what Kunoichi said the idea of Lunars getting the knacks and being able to use them for say chimeric tricks might be interesting.
          Important to note: We've been told that chimerae will simply be Lunars with mix and match totem shapes with traits of two (or more?) animals, not shoggoths.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Saur Ops Specialist View Post
            Important to note: We've been told that chimerae will simply be Lunars with mix and match totem shapes with traits of two (or more?) animals, not shoggoths.
            Not-shoggoths, yes, I recall that vividly, but can you cite them being just mix-and-match totems? Because I don't recall that bit.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by AnubisXy View Post

              Well, if you wanted to play a squid-themed dude, you might want to be able to grow some tentacles. Likewise if you wanted to play a tortoise-themed dude, maybe you'd want to be able to grow a thick shell.
              ​So is this a question of Charms that leave their aesthetics to the choice of the player depending on what their totem is, or needing to make cascades of Charms to cover every possible animal aesthetic that they can selectively climb up while disregarding all of the others?

              Originally posted by AnubisXy
              Some people might be happy if the extent of their shapeshifting were largely limited to only being able to turn into animals,but personally I'd like it to be a bit more flexible than that. I know I'd be rather unhappy if Lunars didn't have Charms of other powers to let them modify their bodies, growing thick shells, giving themselves really sharp teeth to bite with, being able to cover their body in razor sharp quills, etc.
              ​Some of those seem plausible. They also seem like they'd be fairly straightforward to designate specific functions to, making the Attribute that they get assigned to fairly straightforward, which I find an effective answer for your question of how to handle Attribute assignments if somebody wants tentacles to do fifty different things.

              Originally posted by AnubisXy
              so it's possible that Lunars will be primarily restricted from shapechanging, other than turning into something they killed.
              Restricted is such a loaded term; I prefer "focused".


              I have approximate knowledge of many things.
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              • #22
                Originally posted by TheCountAlucard View Post
                Not-shoggoths, yes, I recall that vividly, but can you cite them being just mix-and-match totems? Because I don't recall that bit.
                About one third down, we get a note about hybrid monsters based on chimerism. Granted, I may just be inferring a bit much in assuming that it's going to be like it was in 1e, only with all the bad parts removed, but it sounds close enough.

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                • #23
                  I'm almost sure Knacks are no more in Ex3.

                  IMO all Lunar charms could branch from three major charms that I call the beastmen trees: Deadly/ Trickster/ Mystic Beastman Transformation.

                  Ex2 had something similar to those... I kind of scene-long enhancer for the set of attributes of each caste.


                  Join the Strife

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                  • #24
                    If Knacks are not Charms, they can ignore Favored/Unfavored costs and Knack trees can cross Attribute trees.

                    But having a half-way cost doesn't actually help, and I remember the nightmare of First Edition's Attribute-crossing Charm trees.

                    I'm now in favor of abolishing the divide between Charms and Knacks. Eclipses can't learn them anymore, they probably won't need to cross Attributes if they can be placed in trees of related Charms, and you're generally going to buy "Knacks" out of your favored Attributes.

                    No more Knacks.
                    Last edited by Sunder the Gold; 03-20-2017, 01:46 PM.


                    Formerly Inugami, formerly Tornado Wolf.

                    My RWBY Blog on Tumblr: Semblances, Kingdoms, Grimm, and more!

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                    • #25
                      As long as we don't regress into "Now I'm plant shape!", I'm fine with Knacks essentially being something separate, but it's really really not necessary now. Then again, who knows how writer opinions on Lunars could change between the beginning of the edition and when they will actually be worked on. They might be of completely different minds in their design goals. It's happened plenty during EX3 development already.


                      Incentive is not permission or justification.

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by ParanoiaCombo View Post
                        As long as we don't regress into "Now I'm plant shape!", I'm fine with Knacks essentially being something separate, but it's really really not necessary now. Then again, who knows how writer opinions on Lunars could change between the beginning of the edition and when they will actually be worked on. They might be of completely different minds in their design goals. It's happened plenty during EX3 development already.
                        Indeed. We can't even really say who the writers on the Lunars book will be. It's a bit of a far projection at the moment.


                        A Green Sun Destrier

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                        • #27
                          In lieu of knowing what will actually happen with 3e Lunars, I don't really see a need for Knacks to exist as separate things, but I have to admit that I really think new categories of things should probably be saved for stuff that actually works different in a meaningful way. Like, we need Knacks alongside Charms as much as we need Hellforged Wonders alongside Artifacts. It's not as if Artifact or Charm are actually super restrictive ideas either.


                          <3

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                          • #28
                            I'd like for Charms to start interacting with Heart's Blood shapeshifting again without having to be Knacks.

                            However, I think Hybrid Body Rearrangement should not return in its Second Edition form.

                            If a Lunar wants to grow a set of wings on bodies which were never meant to have wings, shouldn't that advantage require a Charm which is completely separate from a Charm that allows a Lunar to grow bony armor-plates or fire-breathing chemical sacs?

                            Being a Chimerical Lunar would mean more if it takes more work to become a chimerical creature. And it's kind of lame to have a way to cheaply add wings, armor, and fire-breathing to every stolen form with the same Charm/Knack.


                            Formerly Inugami, formerly Tornado Wolf.

                            My RWBY Blog on Tumblr: Semblances, Kingdoms, Grimm, and more!

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                            • #29
                              I recall when Irked was doing his more direct conversion of the Lunar Charms and stuff from 2e, he had a very sensible way of doing Hybrid Body Rearrangement in Third Edition, which was that it could grant something which was derived from one of the forms you actually possess rather than just pulling them from nothing. So if you have a form that's a Strix, using that to get Wings, that sort of thing.


                              <3

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Leetsepeak View Post
                                I recall when Irked was doing his more direct conversion of the Lunar Charms and stuff from 2e, he had a very sensible way of doing Hybrid Body Rearrangement in Third Edition, which was that it could grant something which was derived from one of the forms you actually possess rather than just pulling them from nothing. So if you have a form that's a Strix, using that to get Wings, that sort of thing.
                                I admit I didn't play a lot of lunars, and saw exceptionally few chimera, but I thought that was how it worked. I mean it made the most sense you have access to a ton of forms and the ability to freely shift between them it seemed like the logical inference that a chimera doing something like spawning wings meant it had a bird form in it's bank not that it just grew wings.

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