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Daemons of the Warhammer Universe in Creation

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  • Daemons of the Warhammer Universe in Creation

    I was toying with the idea of stating up some monsters based on the Daemons of the Warhammer Universe (Khorne, Nurgle, Slaanesh and Tzeentch) but... I feel like they would not actually be 'demons' in creation. While the lesser demons might make reasonable 1CD, and the greater demons 2CD, the feel and style of the Warhammer Daemons seems a lot more aggressive than the almost Byronic, tragic monster archetypes of the 2CDs as they already exist. Plus, there's a lot of overlap - who needs a Greater Demon of Khorne when you have Octavian?

    So I was conceiving of them as new Wyld entities. The Wyld first birthed the Primordials so there's no clear reason why it could produce some new angry souls.

    Has anyone already had a go at doing this (transposing daemons into Exalted)?

    And for the Warhammer fans, where do you see Daemons fitting into creation? Demons or Wyld creatures? and why?


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  • #2
    I've always used the Warp and beings of Chaos as a comparison to the Wyld and creatures that come from the Wyld for my friends who are familiar with 40k but not Exalted. In general, Exalted's demons just seem too orderly for beings of Chaos. In terms of power level, though, I think the first and third circle demons translate well enough into lesser daemons and greater daemons, respectively, while daemon princes run between second and third circle.

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    • #3
      You equate greater daemons with 3CD?

      Conceptually I can see it, but in warhammer the greater demons largely play a combat role with (necessarily) limited powers, which seems much more 2CD to me. When you look at the powers of the 3CD in Exalted (e.g instantly creating a library full of arcane knowledge) it seems so much more powerful than anything ever attributed to a greater daemon.

      I would use infernal exalts as demon princes. Especially in 2nd ed


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      • #4
        I was thinking about this the other day, and Daedra from Skyrim. I think they could be setup differently based on their nature, or all thrown into the same "weird things from beyond the rim of Creation" catagory.

        My thoughts were making them beings that have kingdoms in the Deep Wyld and wholly unique in and of themselves and not Super Faes.

        You could easily make Slaanesh into a void creature that dwells in the Labrynth as well. Khorne could fit anywhere honestly. That is, again, if you didn't want to make them all Wyld based beings.

        Also, The Wyld didn't birth the Primordials first. There was no concept of first or last when the Primordials came about. In fact that is why they were so hated was they began to slowly force definition unto the undefinable.

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        • #5
          Great, now I'm thinking about statting out Greater Daemons. There goes my productivity for the rest of the day.

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          • #6
            I think rendering them as unique, non-specific beings from the Wyld could be cool.


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            • #7
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              • #8
                Originally posted by Leetsepeak View Post
                I think rendering them as unique, non-specific beings from the Wyld could be cool.

                The only other option I'm entertaining at the moment is that they are conventional primordial-souls who, during the war, were cast out into the wyld during a battle and are now seriously warped by their millenia lost in chaos, and have warped into the four ruinous powers.


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                • #9
                  Originally posted by CapitanTypo View Post
                  You equate greater daemons with 3CD?

                  Conceptually I can see it, but in warhammer the greater demons largely play a combat role with (necessarily) limited powers, which seems much more 2CD to me. When you look at the powers of the 3CD in Exalted (e.g instantly creating a library full of arcane knowledge) it seems so much more powerful than anything ever attributed to a greater daemon.

                  I would use infernal exalts as demon princes. Especially in 2nd ed

                  That is kinda biased by a lot of the fluff coming from army books, which obviously focus on that.

                  In some of the wider source material that do a lot more, warp cultures, turn planets into demon worlds, have personalities other than just kill. I think 3CD is good for the more powerful among them.

                  If you just want a kill bot then 2CD.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by CapitanTypo View Post
                    I was toying with the idea of stating up some monsters based on the Daemons of the Warhammer Universe (Khorne, Nurgle, Slaanesh and Tzeentch) but... I feel like they would not actually be 'demons' in creation. While the lesser demons might make reasonable 1CD, and the greater demons 2CD, the feel and style of the Warhammer Daemons seems a lot more aggressive than the almost Byronic, tragic monster archetypes of the 2CDs as they already exist. Plus, there's a lot of overlap - who needs a Greater Demon of Khorne when you have Octavian?

                    So I was conceiving of them as new Wyld entities. The Wyld first birthed the Primordials so there's no clear reason why it could produce some new angry souls.

                    Has anyone already had a go at doing this (transposing daemons into Exalted)?

                    And for the Warhammer fans, where do you see Daemons fitting into creation? Demons or Wyld creatures? and why?
                    I do know that there have been some efforts to convert Chaos Gods into Yozi Charmsets for Infenals, but I don't know if specific Daemons have been attempted (nor where the chaos god adaptations can be found).

                    Ultimately, I'm of the opinion that they can work as anything you want them to. Thematically, Daemon Princes are closer to high-essence Infernals - they follow their directives (and their Urges) and are warped by the powers they bear, but they are still independent entities that can act as they see fit. Then again, the same can be said for some of the Champions of Chaos that are still mortal (i.e. Kharne the Betrayer, Ahriman, etc).

                    If you choose to go the demon route (rationalizing that they are mortals or half-demonic Exalted who somehow morphed into daemons), then I agree with Builder - it depends on if you just want combat monsters (in every sense of the word) or fully fluffed out and developed entities; based on that, you can determine their rank in Exalted's structure. That said, I tend towards 3rd Circle more than not, especially for the Daemon primarchs

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                    • #11
                      I've always pictured in my head the blood apes like Scyla: https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB...yla-Anfingrimm

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Ares View Post
                        I've always pictured in my head the blood apes like Scyla: https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB...yla-Anfingrimm

                        I've been playing Warhammer so long I still have this figure of Scyla somewhere: http://i641.photobucket.com/albums/u...WOC-Scylla.jpg

                        And this as his original pain scheme: http://whfb-de.lexicanum.com/mediawi...a_(4._Edi).JPG


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                        "If only I had an enemy bigger than my apathy, I could have won" - I gave you all, Mumford & Sons

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                        • #13
                          Further thought: what would be the relationship between such wyld-based beings and raksha?


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                          "If only I had an enemy bigger than my apathy, I could have won" - I gave you all, Mumford & Sons

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                          • #14
                            It's interesting, because Warhammer demons are basically what demons were from Michael Moorcock's books, particularly the ones in the Eternal Champion cycles, and in the design notes for Exalted, original developer Geoff Grabowski talked about how having designated the Fair Folk as the incarnations of chaos, that he felt inclined for them to go in a rather different direction for demons.

                            ​I find that particularly interesting considering how much Moorcock would have been among the unconventional things they were drawing on to make Exalted, but even then the conflation of demons with chaos had become so pervasive that to repeat it in this game would have been a bit derivative.

                            I don't know if that helps any with this particular question, but I wanted to share it.


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                            • #15
                              I'm much more interested in The First Heretic's portrayal of daemons, the symbiosis between Raum and Argel Tal was a fascinating read, for a daemon Raum doesn't seem any more evil than a vicious animal that's only known hunting and fighting over scraps of food. It's hunger for blood is tempered by its symbiosis to a Space Marine and ultimately comes to identify itself as his brother.

                              It ends in the shadow of great wings as Raum always knew it would, but those two really were too good for 40k.


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