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Daemons of the Warhammer Universe in Creation

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Isator Levi View Post
    It's interesting, because Warhammer demons are basically what demons were from Michael Moorcock's books, particularly the ones in the Eternal Champion cycles, and in the design notes for Exalted, original developer Geoff Grabowski talked about how having designated the Fair Folk as the incarnations of chaos, that he felt inclined for them to go in a rather different direction for demons.

    ‚ÄčI find that particularly interesting considering how much Moorcock would have been among the unconventional things they were drawing on to make Exalted, but even then the conflation of demons with chaos had become so pervasive that to repeat it in this game would have been a bit derivative.

    I don't know if that helps any with this particular question, but I wanted to share it.
    That's kind of why I'm leaning towards a manifestation of the daemons in Exalted being demons that have been trapped/warped but he wyld. Work with what already exists in creation.


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    • #17
      The Chaos Gods are definitely something more of the Wyld, but then so were the Primordials, once.

      The Chaos Gods are what the Primordials could have been had they "evolved" along a different path.

      They are not self-consistent "roles", the "King", the "Behemoth", the "Shadow", the "Mountain".

      They are emotions, raw and explosive. They are rage and joy, hope and despair.

      They are what the Primordials would have been had they become one with Pure Chaos instead of rejecting, and yet still retained their identities.

      The Primordials were Bodhisattva, who's transcendental focus upon their role rose them above the Wyld. The Chaos Gods are the Asura, who's base sensation upon what they felt made them masters of the Wyld.

      The Chaos Gods are not ishvara, who spun a tale so great that it nailed them to existence. They aren't the shinma, conceptual baselines on which everything else sits.

      The emanations of these beings were demons long before the Primordial's souls were.

      To them, shaped existence is an insult, but not one that should be unmade. This is something they feel something about, and to unmake it would be free themselves of that emotion, and that is anathema to them.

      All there is left to do is express themselves, express themselves so hard.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by CapitanTypo View Post

        That's kind of why I'm leaning towards a manifestation of the daemons in Exalted being demons that have been trapped/warped but he wyld. Work with what already exists in creation.
        This works pretty well, Demonettes feed on emotions to survive and there's a lot of weird shit that they do on their own time. Although 40k demons are kind of evil and personal in a way I find Exalted tends to shy away from.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by DrLoveMonkey View Post
          This works pretty well, Demonettes feed on emotions to survive and there's a lot of weird shit that they do on their own time. Although 40k demons are kind of evil and personal in a way I find Exalted tends to shy away from.

          Yeah, that's why I couldn't conceive of them a straight demons in the Exalted sense. But Wyld warped Demons whose motivations have been replaced with an angry, resentful desire to get revenge on creation works quite well for me. Just as the demons seek to break free of malfeas, the Daemons-like the Raksha, seek to revel in the destruction of creation, but not so much by its unmaking as by twisting and perverting it into their own wyrd playground.

          And for that reason, they are as hated by the Fae as they are by creation.


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          • #20
            Originally posted by DrLoveMonkey View Post
            This works pretty well, Demonettes feed on emotions to survive and there's a lot of weird shit that they do on their own time. Although 40k demons are kind of evil and personal in a way I find Exalted tends to shy away from.
            I've often considered that the lesser daemons we see the most of are more reflective of the fact that the lore is primarily being written for a wargame than the extent of the creatures born of a particular Chaos God. Like I could see Neomah and Angyalka co-existing with Daemonettes but outside of being figures in a retinue unit like an Archon's Court they wouldn't flock to a battlefield in the kind of numbers to justify a presence as a unit.

            Similarly Daemonettes could be another species of First Circle Demon in Malfeas that sorcerers don't make the most use of because there's safer and more predictable demons for anything you might want one for.


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            • #21
              If I were to make an allegories for the Chaos in Exalted I'd say:
              Gods Primordial
              Daemon Princes3rd circle
              Greater daemkns 2nd circle
              Lesser daemons 1st circle

              EDIT: C'Tan would probably be Primordials too.
              Last edited by Gallus; 03-24-2017, 10:03 AM.


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              • #22
                We kind of have to draw a line here between the fluff part of Warhammer and the crunch parts. By crunch they can be a large number of things (demons, FF, elementals, etc). By fluff the powers of Chaos are emotion given form. Hell, if you go by the Liber Chaotica then even "good" gods like Sigmar are Chaos gods, and that's exactly the direction I would go with them. If I was going to translate these guys to Exalted I would have them as sub-directors to the Maidens: Nurgle works with Saturn, Slaanesh works with Venus, Korne works with Mars, Tzeentch works with Jupiter, and Malal worked with Mercury but he disappeared . The gods of Exalted work in a similar way to the Chaos ones anyway, no need to reinvent the wheel.
                Last edited by Ghost; 03-24-2017, 10:41 AM.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Lioness View Post
                  I've often considered that the lesser daemons we see the most of are more reflective of the fact that the lore is primarily being written for a wargame than the extent of the creatures born of a particular Chaos God. Like I could see Neomah and Angyalka co-existing with Daemonettes but outside of being figures in a retinue unit like an Archon's Court they wouldn't flock to a battlefield in the kind of numbers to justify a presence as a unit.

                  Similarly Daemonettes could be another species of First Circle Demon in Malfeas that sorcerers don't make the most use of because there's safer and more predictable demons for anything you might want one for.
                  Yeah I can see that. Exalted demons are presented in such a way as to make them an appealing option to Sorcerer's and not be really punishing, in 40k even inquisitor lords who are some of the most stalwart and educated demonologists in the universe don't often mess with demons because of their malice. There definitely could be demons like that in Exalted, ones who's reason for being is to cause the suffering of others or to spread plague for it's own sake, it's just those guys aren't brought up much.

                  Demons who's greatest pleasure is your suffering and have zero empathy for anything mortal likely don't make the best summons.

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                  • #24
                    In 2e The chaos demons could also be related to the 4 virtues, whether their opposites or their dark manifestations.

                    Valor = Khorne
                    Temperance = slaanesh
                    Compassion = Nurgle
                    Conviction = Tzeentch


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                    • #25
                      So an odd question on my mind.
                      What would the Horus Heresy look like with the participants changed to the Realm's Great Houses?

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by The Hug Ninja View Post
                        So an odd question on my mind.
                        What would the Horus Heresy look like with the participants changed to the Realm's Great Houses?
                        A small selection of houses fall under the influence of some Akuma until one of their greatest heroes becomes and infernal exalt and leads a great crusade against the other houses


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                        • #27
                          I was hoping more for a who's who rather than nebulous corruption.

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Sandact6 View Post
                            Big picture


                            I laughed so hard I choked.


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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by DrLoveMonkey View Post
                              This works pretty well, Demonettes feed on emotions to survive and there's a lot of weird shit that they do on their own time. Although 40k demons are kind of evil and personal in a way I find Exalted tends to shy away from.
                              That sounds exactly like raksha, who likewise feed on emotions and who get extremely personal as a deliberate tactic to elicit as much emotion as possible.


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