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  • Originally posted by Therian View Post
    How do you see the effects of White Veil style effecting creatures like animals and zombies that would attack a character indiscriminately regardless of whether they thought she was attacking them or not? Or on a battlefield where carousing or socializing would be out of place?
    I'd leave that for players to describe with stunts.


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    • Originally posted by reseru View Post
      That wouldn't prevent them from tainting it for future use, right? I feel like that's half the fun of "black market" Exigences.
      Only gods can use the Exigence, in any capacity.


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      • Originally posted by GenericMaleNPC01 View Post


        On what question? That it happens on every strike or that it requires intent?
        Yes, it happens every time you make an attack while in Single Point Form.


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        • Originally posted by Epee102 View Post
          Is the status of the Auxillary exalted noted? Are they well known enough for Immaculates to categorize them as 'anathema' by nature or?
          It'll likely be addressed, but we haven't concretely pinned it down.


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          • Originally posted by reseru View Post
            That wouldn't prevent them from tainting it for future use, right? I feel like that's half the fun of "black market" Exigences.
            *coughs in the direction of the Forbidden Gods*


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            • Originally posted by Robert Vance View Post
              You can't overcome the need for the Exigence through quantity.
              How powerful a being would you need to be to create an Exaltation on your own then, without calling on the Exigence? I presume a Second Circle demon or equivalent is not powerful enough, but what about something on par with a Third Circle? A Fetich Third Circle? Or would it need to be a numinous and singular being of nigh untold power (or is that just another term for Third Circles?)

              Is it possible for a powerful enough Non-God to create an Exaltation? Like, if the Kukla was coherent, could it theoretically create its own Exalted, ignoring the Exigence entirely? What about a legendarily powerful Ghost or Unshaped Raksha or something?

              Exalted can’t create their own Exalted, but a Solar Circle Working could theoretically create a spirit of vast power. Could such a spirit theoretically create its own Exalted?


              ....

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              • Originally posted by BrilliantRain View Post
                How powerful a being would you need to be to create an Exaltation on your own then, without calling on the Exigence? I presume a Second Circle demon or equivalent is not powerful enough, but what about something on par with a Third Circle? A Fetich Third Circle? Or would it need to be a numinous and singular being of nigh untold power (or is that just another term for Third Circles?)
                People can typically only be Exalted by beings of numinous and singular power, though a Storyteller who wants to have a less potent being Exalt someone in her game is well within her rights to do so.


                Originally posted by BrilliantRain View Post
                Is it possible for a powerful enough Non-God to create an Exaltation? Like, if the Kukla was coherent, could it theoretically create its own Exalted, ignoring the Exigence entirely? What about a legendarily powerful Ghost or Unshaped Raksha or something?
                The patron of the Dream-Souled is not a god, so it's definitely a thing that can happen.


                Originally posted by BrilliantRain View Post
                Exalted can’t create their own Exalted, but a Solar Circle Working could theoretically create a spirit of vast power. Could such a spirit theoretically create its own Exalted?
                That's an interesting question for which I don't have a definitive answer at the moment; we'll probably discuss it when we start working on the sorcery book.


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                • So, does exigence only work for gods because the Unconquered Sun is himself a god?

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                  • Originally posted by Elfive View Post
                    So, does exigence only work for gods because the Unconquered Sun is himself a god?
                    I think that delving into the whys and wherefores of the Exigence's restrictions is an unproductive line of inquiry.


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                    • Will anything break if I declare that in my games, any Ability can be used to Introduce Facts, with Lore just having the widest breadth of potential Facts ('anything' as opposed to 'just what this Ability covers')?

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                      • Originally posted by MorsRattus View Post
                        Will anything break if I declare that in my games, any Ability can be used to Introduce Facts, with Lore just having the widest breadth of potential Facts ('anything' as opposed to 'just what this Ability covers')?
                        Introduce Fact isn't there to let your character know things. While there isn't any specific broad-based rule in the core book that covers knowing things, there's no reason you can't just roll Int + Ability to ask the Storyteller for information. But that's information provided by the Storyteller. When you're using Introduce Fact, you're using it to portray a specific character concept — the character whose obscure knowledge drives the story forward — and doing through via a metagame mechanism that takes control of setting elements normally under Storyteller control and places them in player hands.

                        As an example, in the TV show House, Dr. House isn't pulling his bullshit diagnoses out of his ass by dint of a higher Medicine rating than the other highly skilled doctors in the cast of characters. He can do it where the others cannot because he's also bought up Lore and is making Introduce Fact rolls based on medical topics.

                        So in short, it doesn't break the system or anything, but it removes a significant PC niche, makes Introduce Facts rolls much more prevalent in a way that may prove distracting to the Storyteller, and greatly reduces Lore's desirability.


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                        • Does Ship-claiming stance's effect apply even when the Exalted captain is not aboard? Will enemies boarding the ship still be subject to the penalty if the captain is not present? Would this be the case for an artifact ship, but not for a mundane ship?

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                          • Originally posted by Eric Minton View Post

                            Introduce Fact isn't there to let your character know things. While there isn't any specific broad-based rule in the core book that covers knowing things, there's no reason you can't just roll Int + Ability to ask the Storyteller for information. But that's information provided by the Storyteller. When you're using Introduce Fact, you're using it to portray a specific character concept — the character whose obscure knowledge drives the story forward — and doing through via a metagame mechanism that takes control of setting elements normally under Storyteller control and places them in player hands.

                            As an example, in the TV show House, Dr. House isn't pulling his bullshit diagnoses out of his ass by dint of a higher Medicine rating than the other highly skilled doctors in the cast of characters. He can do it where the others cannot because he's also bought up Lore and is making Introduce Fact rolls based on medical topics.

                            So in short, it doesn't break the system or anything, but it removes a significant PC niche, makes Introduce Facts rolls much more prevalent in a way that may prove distracting to the Storyteller, and greatly reduces Lore's desirability.
                            My experience is Lore doesn't have desirability with it, but rather that my players are frustrated because they either have to take Lore dots or, it feels, not be able to come up with their own interesting additions to the setting. Introduce Facts seems to take this ability to contribute, rather than asking me, the GM, for the information, and sequester it away in a single Ability, implicitly stating that this is not a toy anyone else gets to play with unless they go for Lore.

                            This is why I ask - is it the intention that a player needs to ask me for info rather than contribute their own idea without having to go through me first the way Lore can?

                            e: basically, it's not about the PCs knowing things, but about the players wanting to be able to introduce setting information on their own initiative.

                            e2: To better illustrate, a counterexample: Elliot Spencer. Elliot doesn't have huge Lore - he doesn't know a lot about EVERYTHING, he knows a lot about very specific things. He knows how soldiers are going to dress and act, he can identify them by their combat boots or their stance, because it's a very specific stance/boots/whatever. But he's not going to be able to do that for, like, history, or math, or computers, or dogs. He's got a very specific knowledgebase that he can introduce facts on, and that's 'fighting, and people who fight.'
                            Last edited by MorsRattus; 09-05-2018, 05:01 PM.

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                            • Originally posted by MorsRattus View Post

                              My experience is Lore doesn't have desirability with it, but rather that my players are frustrated because they either have to take Lore dots or, it feels, not be able to come up with their own interesting additions to the setting. Introduce Facts seems to take this ability to contribute, rather than asking me, the GM, for the information, and sequester it away in a single Ability, implicitly stating that this is not a toy anyone else gets to play with unless they go for Lore.

                              This is why I ask - is it the intention that a player needs to ask me for info rather than contribute their own idea without having to go through me first the way Lore can?

                              e: basically, it's not about the PCs knowing things, but about the players wanting to be able to introduce setting information on their own initiative.

                              e2: To better illustrate, a counterexample: Elliot Spencer. Elliot doesn't have huge Lore - he doesn't know a lot about EVERYTHING, he knows a lot about very specific things. He knows how soldiers are going to dress and act, he can identify them by their combat boots or their stance, because it's a very specific stance/boots/whatever. But he's not going to be able to do that for, like, history, or math, or computers, or dogs. He's got a very specific knowledgebase that he can introduce facts on, and that's 'fighting, and people who fight.'
                              My understanding of designer intent is that Lore was indeed intended to silo off the ability to introduce setting information. So Elliott Spencer's player can use the character's Firearms Ability to ask the ST for all sorts of information about guns, but if he wants to Declare a Fact that the enemy's guns are of a specific model that's notoriously prone to jamming in this weather, he'll have to roll Lore — or else wait for Nate Ford's player, who's actually invested heavily in Lore, to make such a declaration.

                              Obviously you can change this at your table! I'm just conveying my understanding of how it appears to be covered in the rulebook.


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                              • Originally posted by Sticks View Post
                                Does Ship-claiming stance's effect apply even when the Exalted captain is not aboard? Will enemies boarding the ship still be subject to the penalty if the captain is not present? Would this be the case for an artifact ship, but not for a mundane ship?
                                You don't need to be on the ship for it to work.


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