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  • Originally posted by Mizu View Post
    I liked their work, but not enough to put up with the schedule slippage that left me with pretty much none of their work to read. I was willing to get over it with the corebook because 'oh, well, a strong foundation is super important', but now its been over a year since that finally came out and we haven't seen so much as the release of a (relatively) short 64 page supplement like Arms of the Chosen. The fact that they apparently pumped out plenty of work to not get paid for because they didn't release it for whatever reasons is, in my book, even worse then if they had just been sitting around doing nothing. If my interest in the line wasn't pretty much dead (getting my physical 3rd edition corebook slightly rekindled it and lead to me coming to the forums today) I'd probably be downright pissed.

    Seriously, couldn't even release a 64 page supplement with more then a years worth of time.

    I understand your frustration, but I refuse to deposit the blame on their doorstep. I'm glad I have the game, and I'm playing (and my group) the living hell out of it (and enjoying it). I think the game's survival is the word and mouth and the general goodwill of the 'fans'.

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    • C'mon, the mechanics weren't that crappy, right?

      Originally posted by AnubisXy View Post
      …they were actually pretty decent for something that someone literally pulled out of their ass over the course of a few days…
      Last edited by TheCountAlucard; 04-06-2017, 09:56 PM.

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      • Originally posted by Blaque View Post
        And in the current style of Exalted 3e, as much as I like Neph, I don't htink he does fit the setting's current goals for tone and style. Which is fine. He has other shit he's great at he has done great with. (His stuff to me was the best parts of Mummy). And there are other authors I kind of hope don't show up since well....we don't need another Nameless Lair, dictator-apoligia Perfect or House of Succulent Tears again. THankfully I think the current devs are of that opinion too, so we'll be fine there.
        Yeah, it's not that his writing skills weren't top-notch, or that he didn't come up with exciting, clever mechanics. But most of his work frames things in binaries and extreme absolutes in a way that really doesn't mesh with what 3E is going for. Some examples include his push for mortals to be Heroic or extras, with no in between; Abyssals had to either inevitably kill the world or else redeem into Solars; the Unconquered Sun was either impossible to defeat, or if he suppressed his virtues, a complete chump.

        The meme that "this is Exalted, mortals don't matter" while taken out of context and reduced to a soundbite, was originally taken from a Neph quote. The inevitability of Oblivion is what initially kicked off the trend of the "thousand dooms". Holden and John errattaing in a battle form for the Unconquered Sun to make him less of a chump even without his Aegis severely pissed Neph off and was one of the major blows that caused him to leave the line. Neph contributed a lot tonally to 2E, and a lot of what 3E is trying to be is starkly different from what he produced.

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        • Originally posted by Irked View Post
          There's some truth in that, though it's equally true that some of the most vocal defenders of 3e have derided Neph's work as - well, to quote from upthread, "toxic" changes to the line. I think some of the objection in both cases is less "Nothing can ever change" than "I think these particular changes are bad"; almost every Exalted fan thinks something about it needs to change, regardless of edition. (There's some CHANGE IS ALWAYS BAD mixed in there too, depending on the person, sure.)

          Honestly, I think my positive memories of Neph tie mostly to about two things:

          1) He wrote really evocative, mechanically clever stuff, and

          2) He was polite in public, even to people being jerks.

          (He also got some long, slow revenges, such as writing Abyssals to be anti-fae as payback against a single raksha fanboy. But he talked to you like you were a valuable human being, and that... that actually turns out to go a long way. For all that this forum hated on Dean Shomshak for a long time, when he showed up and turned out to be a pretty good guy to chat with, that changed a lot of people's minds.)

          ... Man, now I miss the Ink Monkeys era again. Good times.
          I mean, ParanoiaCombo's post pretty much boils down to "People like writers who write things they like, and don't like as much writers who write things they don't like as much. News at 11." But yes, Neph's politeness was great, especially in comparison to....others who were involved in the line. One of the big reasons I completely stopped even lurking on these forums was the extremely toxic atmosphere that had been cultivated. Minton and Vance's courtesy, transparency, and helpfulness have been a wonderful breath of fresh air. Between the Ask the Devs thread, the Arms preview, and all the other discussion those things have generated, this place is starting to feel a lot more like the forum I enjoyed reading at the height of 2nd Ed. I really hope that, regardless if Neph comes back or not, they can find more writers with his attitude.

          All that said, it is a real shame if Holden and Hatewheel never return to Exalted. They wrote some great stuff both in 2e and 3e. ...they just need to stick to writing, because project management and PR is not their strong suit.

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          • Originally posted by Wandering View Post

            Yeah, it's not that his writing skills weren't top-notch, or that he didn't come up with exciting, clever mechanics. But most of his work frames things in binaries and extreme absolutes in a way that really doesn't mesh with what 3E is going for. Some examples include his push for mortals to be Heroic or extras, with no in between; Abyssals had to either inevitably kill the world or else redeem into Solars; the Unconquered Sun was either impossible to defeat, or if he suppressed his virtues, a complete chump.

            The meme that "this is Exalted, mortals don't matter" while taken out of context and reduced to a soundbite, was originally taken from a Neph quote. The inevitability of Oblivion is what initially kicked off the trend of the "thousand dooms". Holden and John errattaing in a battle form for the Unconquered Sun to make him less of a chump even without his Aegis severely pissed Neph off and was one of the major blows that caused him to leave the line. Neph contributed a lot tonally to 2E, and a lot of what 3E is trying to be is starkly different from what he produced.
            Mechanically, Neph was working within the paradigm given. He didn't decide on the cheap perfects : overwhelming attacks dichotomy. He did have to work within it.

            As for 'mortals don't matter', the meaning of that statement was warped far out of context by the fans, and John and Holden were happy to use it as a weapon to push for their vision of Exalted. I actually quite like the direction Ex3 is headed, but that doesn't make 2E all bad, nor does it make Neph's contributions objectively bad.

            I will also agree with Irked that by far Neph's greatest quality was his willingness to educate and converse fearlessly. I learned a ton about game design by asking him pointed questions and getting immensely clear and verbose answers.

            I can also still see his thinking in Ex3, even though he didn't have a single hand in writing it.

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            • We've got a thread for John and Holden's positive contributions and a thread for Neph's contributions would be equally welcome.

              I don't see anything good coming from this thread remaining open.


              Onyx Path Forums Moderator

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