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  • #61
    Originally posted by BrilliantRain View Post

    That was my understanding too, but the adventure indicates that the demon expects to be able to escape into the dreams of Creation's masses if the bindings keeping it here are broken. So, either I misread the adventure and I'm wrong about that or this particular binding had some kind of escape clause in it (well or this demon isn't bound as tightly to hell as the others). Well, or neither of us understand the binding rules correctly.

    Or...hrm..... I guess maybe this counts as the binding "failing" rather than the binding coming to its natural conclusion?
    Just because the demon thinks it will be able to escape into the dreams of Creation doesn't mean that is what will happen. It is slightly insane at this point, and who knows if it ever actually understood all the intricacies of the binding.

    Anyway, congratulations, SLS! I think you did a very good job. Is Iay original, or am I forgetting him from the core or the previous editions? I really, really like his backstory.

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    • #62
      Volfer is new. Everyone else was originally from one of the 1e Solar Castebooks.


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      • #63
        By default, the scenario doesn't include a clear way to keep Cseke bound. Either you free it, or it fights you to the death.

        Of course, Mirror Flag has an oathsealing power....

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        • #64
          As is, I don't think the point about binding will be an issue for anyone new to the game, but, for people who start looking at the rules for demon summoning in the 3e Core it might trip them up a bit. Adding a note or sidebar that says "This demon was bound in a non-standard way using a Working, so it doesn't conform to the rules for demon summoning in the 3e Core" might be nice and reduce confusion later on.

          But that's honestly the only issue I have with the adventure and it's not a particularly big one.


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          • #65
            So I was curious...why do all of the pregens only have 10 charms, when the core gives new players 15?


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            • #66
              Originally posted by Stephan1864 View Post
              So I was curious...why do all of the pregens only have 10 charms, when the core gives new players 15?
              Keeps the newbies from being overwhelmed?


              Disclaimer: I'll huff, grump, and defend my position, but if you're having fun I'll never say you're doing it wrong.

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              • #67
                Originally posted by Coik View Post
                Iay seems to have the most advanced case, though
                ​Curiously, it seems as though he's always been drawn like that, to the point where I would wonder if that's just what people look like where he comes from.


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                • #68
                  Is it ok to ask who are the characters stated in the book?

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                  • #69
                    Originally posted by Sakii View Post
                    Is it ok to ask who are the characters stated in the book?
                    We have a full circle of solars, designed to be easy to pick up and play. The roster is Volfer, the Dawn; Karal Fire Orchid, the Zenith; Iay Selek-Amu, the Twilight; Faka Kun, the Night; and the Mirror Flag, the Eclipse.

                    Also statted are a River Goddess, a Fire Elemental, and a Demon.


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                    • #70
                      Of the artifacts, the only ones that don't really speak to me are Kalinaki and Syanotis. The others, between their names, weapon types, and materials, I get at least a sense of what they are but the two that have proper names.... I'm not really sure what they would be like. Plus, White and Red Jade and Moonsilver is a very odd combination of materials, especially for a Skycutter.

                      Anyone have any thoughts on either of these? Well, or the other artifacts for that matter?


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                      • #71
                        Originally posted by Eric Minton View Post
                        I don't have the book handy, and I recognize that it may not cover this adequately (or that my current understanding may contradict published 3e material), but my understanding is that a bound demon returns to the Demon City when its service is complete—whether because its year and a day of service has expired, or because its task has been fulfilled. A summoned demon is only loose in Creation if the binding fails.
                        Originally posted by BrilliantRain View Post

                        That was my understanding too, but the adventure indicates that the demon expects to be able to escape into the dreams of Creation's masses if the bindings keeping it here are broken. So, either I misread the adventure and I'm wrong about that or this particular binding had some kind of escape clause in it (well or this demon isn't bound as tightly to hell as the others). Well, or neither of us understand the binding rules correctly.

                        Or...hrm..... I guess maybe this counts as the binding "failing" rather than the binding coming to its natural conclusion?
                        So, I'm reading the demon summoning spell now from the 3E Core, and I'm not seeing much about summoned demons going home. The only way written there for a demon to end up getting sent back to Hell is if the summoner fails his binding and succeeds at an on-the-spot banishment. Otherwise, I don't see anything about summoned demons going home at the end of an annual duration or completed service.

                        I'm guessing this was an oversight? Or was it dev intention that summoned demons stick around to... do what unbound demons do when let loose on an unsuspecting populace?

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                        • #72
                          Originally posted by HighPriest View Post
                          So, I'm reading the demon summoning spell now from the 3E Core, and I'm not seeing much about summoned demons going home. The only way written there for a demon to end up getting sent back to Hell is if the summoner fails his binding and succeeds at an on-the-spot banishment. Otherwise, I don't see anything about summoned demons going home at the end of an annual duration or completed service.

                          I'm guessing this was an oversight? Or was it dev intention that summoned demons stick around to... do what unbound demons do when let loose on an unsuspecting populace?
                          To my understanding, based largely on single bits and the older editions, demons can be summoned to either complete a specific task (regardless of how long that task would take) or to serve the caster for one year and one day.

                          When a Taskbound demon completes its task it returns to Malfeas. Likewise if a Taskbound demon finds that its task is impossible (for example it has been set to guard a specific object and the object is completely destroyed) the demon returns to Malfeas. This tends to make taskbinding the "safest" method of summoning, since you don't have to worry about accidentally unleashing a free demon on the world. Whether the demon finishes its task or not, it will eventually return to Malfeas. At the worst it might end up sticking around in Creation for a long period of time (you tell it to guard a location, it will stay there for ten million years) but at the same time it will be focused on its task and not causing havoc in Creation.

                          Now when you summon a demon to serve for a year and a day, at the end of the year and the day the demon automatically returns to Malfeast. However, if the summoner dies during the course of the year and the day, the demons do not automatically return to Malfeas. It is left trapped in Creation. This is one of the more common ways you end up with free demons in Creation. A Sorcerer summons up a few dozen, and then gets killed and his previously bound demons run hither and yon to do as they wish.

                          This might change in 3rd edition, but it seems unlikely since Demon Summoning is pretty much identical to how it was presented and discussed in the corebooks of older editions.

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                          • #73
                            Originally posted by AnubisXy View Post

                            To my understanding, based largely on single bits and the older editions, demons can be summoned to either complete a specific task (regardless of how long that task would take) or to serve the caster for one year and one day.

                            When a Taskbound demon completes its task it returns to Malfeas. Likewise if a Taskbound demon finds that its task is impossible (for example it has been set to guard a specific object and the object is completely destroyed) the demon returns to Malfeas. This tends to make taskbinding the "safest" method of summoning, since you don't have to worry about accidentally unleashing a free demon on the world. Whether the demon finishes its task or not, it will eventually return to Malfeas. At the worst it might end up sticking around in Creation for a long period of time (you tell it to guard a location, it will stay there for ten million years) but at the same time it will be focused on its task and not causing havoc in Creation.

                            Now when you summon a demon to serve for a year and a day, at the end of the year and the day the demon automatically returns to Malfeast. However, if the summoner dies during the course of the year and the day, the demons do not automatically return to Malfeas. It is left trapped in Creation. This is one of the more common ways you end up with free demons in Creation. A Sorcerer summons up a few dozen, and then gets killed and his previously bound demons run hither and yon to do as they wish.

                            This might change in 3rd edition, but it seems unlikely since Demon Summoning is pretty much identical to how it was presented and discussed in the corebooks of older editions.
                            Yeah, I know that's how it has worked in the past. It definitely isn't what's in the current edition now. There's nothing there about demons returning to Hell at the end of a service, a clause that was definitely included in 2E (just checked), and I'm pretty sure in 1E (don't have that book handy). So I'm just wondering if the exclusion of a "demons go home at the end" statement in the 3E core was intentional or not.

                            That said, it is a pretty far off tangent from this thread's intended purpose. So I'll bring it up in the ask a dev thread instead.

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                            • #74
                              Originally posted by HighPriest View Post
                              So, I'm reading the demon summoning spell now from the 3E Core, and I'm not seeing much about summoned demons going home. The only way written there for a demon to end up getting sent back to Hell is if the summoner fails his binding and succeeds at an on-the-spot banishment. Otherwise, I don't see anything about summoned demons going home at the end of an annual duration or completed service.

                              I'm guessing this was an oversight? Or was it dev intention that summoned demons stick around to... do what unbound demons do when let loose on an unsuspecting populace?
                              This is clearly an oversight. Demon summoning potentially raises some ethical issues, but "Is every single demon I summon going to wind up free to wreak havoc unless I murder it first?" is not one of them.


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                              • #75
                                Originally posted by HighPriest View Post
                                Yeah, I know that's how it has worked in the past. It definitely isn't what's in the current edition now. There's nothing there about demons returning to Hell at the end of a service, a clause that was definitely included in 2E (just checked), and I'm pretty sure in 1E (don't have that book handy).
                                And you'd be wrong. It's not in the 1e Core.

                                Originally posted by First Edition
                                Demon of the First Circle
                                Cost: 20+ motes
                                The spell calls up one of the lesser inhabitants of the demon realm - a twisted, hellish world, different from our own. Though these wicked creatures resent being called into the burningly clean air and bright yellow sunlight of our own world, they can be shackled into magical bondage by a cunning sorcerer. Casting this spell is a ritual of many hours, which must be begun at sundown and end at the stroke of midnight, and it involves a great number of ritual implements and protective sigils - casting it outside a dedicated ritual space is difficult. The actual spell itself costs 20 Essence, to open the portal to the demon realm and call forth the target.
                                Once summoned, the sorcerer and demon engage in a contest of wills, reflected by opposed Willpower + Essence rolls. During the casting of the spell, the character may spend temporary Essence in 5 mote increments to decrease the demon's dice pool. Every five motes of Essence so spent decreases the demon's Willpower + Essence pool by one die. Continue to roll, once per turn, until one of them accumulates three more successes than the other. If the character gains three or more successes, the demon will serve him loyally for a year and a day or perform one task, which can be of indefinite duration. If the demon wins, the character's player may make a Wits + Occult roll at difficulty 3 to banish the demon back to Malfeas. If he fails, the demon is free of the protective diagram. Typically, this means an excruciating death for the socerer, as he rarely has the Essence to defend himself.
                                Demons are the favored tools of the sorcerer because their actions cost no Essence and their capture does not outrage the Celestial Hierarchy.​
                                (​Incidentally and for my own amusement, I note that there's no specific demon-banishing spell in the 1e or 2e Core, either. This isn't a bad thing.)

                                Originally posted by Eric Minton View Post
                                This is clearly an oversight. Demon summoning potentially raises some ethical issues, but "Is every single demon I summon going to wind up free to wreak havoc unless I murder it first?" is not one of them.
                                I dunno that it necessarily demands errata the way some are calling for, Eric - STs are smart, right? Not, like, mindless dice-macros?

                                I can't be the only one who sees a setting that is (relatively!) bereft of unbound demons wreaking havoc unchecked, (relatively!) bereft of sorcerers who were murdered exactly a year and a day after their demon-summoning, and says, "Yeah, they probably aren't just free to do whatever afterward," right?
                                Last edited by TheCountAlucard; 04-10-2017, 06:40 AM.

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