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  • #76
    Originally posted by TheCountAlucard View Post
    I can't be the only one who sees a setting that is (relatively!) bereft of unbound demons wreaking havoc unchecked, (relatively!) bereft of sorcerers who were murdered exactly a year and a day after their demon-summoning, and says, "Yeah, they probably aren't just free to do whatever afterward," right?
    Remember that on these very forums there have been threads of people who, due to interactions with Those Kinds of STs and GMs, don't like the idea of Evocations because they don't want to invest Experience in Evocations when the artifact can be stolen, or ones who wanted Elsewhere defined so that their ST can't say 'You send your sword somewhere Not Here... Which happens to be next to some guy who takes your artifact'.

    There's a mindset of more 'traditional' GMs that was very much 'The players are your enemy and you must seize every advantage against them'. I'm not saying a lot of them are Exalted STers but... That might not be the BEST assumption to make with GMs.


    Disclaimer: I'll huff, grump, and defend my position, but if you're having fun I'll never say you're doing it wrong.

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    • #77
      Still, wouldn't it be better to, instead of writing every rule with the idea in mind that the ST might be a rancid dick, just write an ST guide teaching them how to do fun games without being rancid dicks?
      Last edited by TheCountAlucard; 04-10-2017, 04:54 AM.

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      • #78
        It would be much better to just explicitly say what happens to demons after binding rather than leaving it to be inferred.

        I mean, come on dude. There's no defense. There is at best "well, it's not a super huge problem" but the idea that "well the book didn't have tons of stories about sorcerers being killed a year and a day after a summoning ergo summoned demons must go to Malfeas" is the best way to articulate this rule is absurd.

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        • #79
          Originally posted by AtG View Post
          I mean, come on dude. There's no defense.
          Sure there is! The book has limited space in it. My KS book is on the way, and it was very nearly at the limits of what could be printed! To add "Demons return to Hell under [XYZ conditions]" would have required sentences cut from other places in it. You can argue that there are bits from the Core that are worth cutting to make room for your demonic clause, but what do you think the odds are on the piece you want cut being the one that gets cut?
          Last edited by TheCountAlucard; 04-10-2017, 07:11 AM.

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          • #80
            Being the person who sorta started this tangent, I'd just like to note that I don't have any complaints about the Core book's description of Demon Summoning. I only brought it up here because, in the context of the adventure, it seemed like there could be a bit of confusion and potential hurt feelings if the players felt like their attempt to Take a Third Option was denied because of a misinterpreted rule. That said, the adventure IS pretty clear on the two choices the players have, so I don't think it's going to be a major issue if it doesn't get addressed.


            Placeholder

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            • #81
              Originally posted by TheCountAlucard View Post
              Sure there is! The book has limited space in it.
              The book also has massive amounts of wasted space, including inefficient layout, the whole opening of the Charms chapter, and the majority of the text within the Charms chapter.


              Have you ever read a Coik post before, man? lol
              -Holden

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              • #82
                I don't think this thread is the place for it.


                I have approximate knowledge of many things.
                Watch me play Dark Souls III (completed)
                https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLDtbr08HW8RW4jOHN881YA3yRZBV4lpYw Watch me play Breath of the Wild (updated 12/03)

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                • #83
                  So because I know my group will at least look into which would seem like a more reasonable limitation for why they can't just make a working that will rip open a door for them so they can bugger off.
                  1)PC is a terrestrial sorcerer and it will require at least a moderately complicated celestial working to hijack the dream's security and force open the door.
                  2)Demon, an aspect, or maybe Teo are determined to force this into the climax and so will screw up the working prep, may or may not be subtle depending on the one doing it, to prevent the working from getting off the ground.
                  3)The dream just doesn't have one or more vital components that would allow the opening to be made. Eg a proper connection to the outside.

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                  • #84
                    Originally posted by nalak42 View Post
                    So because I know my group will at least look into which would seem like a more reasonable limitation for why they can't just make a working that will rip open a door for them so they can bugger off.
                    1)PC is a terrestrial sorcerer and it will require at least a moderately complicated celestial working to hijack the dream's security and force open the door.
                    2)Demon, an aspect, or maybe Teo are determined to force this into the climax and so will screw up the working prep, may or may not be subtle depending on the one doing it, to prevent the working from getting off the ground.
                    3)The dream just doesn't have one or more vital components that would allow the opening to be made. Eg a proper connection to the outside.
                    You'd have to go with 2 or 3, because with reaching a TCSrer can try (and succeed, considering success factors) at Celestial level workings.

                    Though I don't remember what, if anything, Tombs has to say about workings, so if you play with just the rules in Tombs this might be a non-issue.

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                    • #85
                      double post

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                      • #86
                        Originally posted by nalak42 View Post
                        So because I know my group will at least look into which would seem like a more reasonable limitation for why they can't just make a working that will rip open a door for them so they can bugger off.
                        1)PC is a terrestrial sorcerer and it will require at least a moderately complicated celestial working to hijack the dream's security and force open the door.
                        2)Demon, an aspect, or maybe Teo are determined to force this into the climax and so will screw up the working prep, may or may not be subtle depending on the one doing it, to prevent the working from getting off the ground.
                        3)The dream just doesn't have one or more vital components that would allow the opening to be made. Eg a proper connection to the outside.
                        It's always the STs perogative to shrug and say "sorry, this just isn't something a working can accomplish." No reason is needed beyond that. However, I imagine both 1 and 2 are true. This doesn't sound like it falls under Terrestrial workings, since those primarily manipulate and enhance the natural world, and considering it was probably a Solar level working to create this pocket realm, it wouldn't be unreasonable to require a Solar level working to break out of it. And while even a Terrestrial sorceror can reach for it, the time per interval for the roll increases to 3 months if you're reaching one level and one year if you're reaching two. I imagine your players can figure out a faster way out well before the sorceror can make a second roll, even if the NPCs didn't try to interfere with the working.

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                        • #87
                          So, I know that this thread is old, but I finished running this adventure last week, and wanted to post my thoughts

                          As a note, I appended this adventure to my original Solar campaign about the solar circle taking over the city of Sijan (which they did by the laws of Abdication), hence I changed the tombs location to being in Sijan but still the dream of a demon.

                          I had a full circle of five characters, one for each caste. All at the beginning of essence 3 and significant amounts of solar xp.

                          The most significant aspect of the adventure was that I never knew whether or not they would free the demon or keep it trapped. Different members of the party had strong intimacies related to freedom and individuality. Even in the final battle, along with the river goddess and fire elemental, several player characters were fighting on opposed sides because the Eclipse was to make a deal with demon in exchange for its freedom. The distinct moments of the battle were when the zenith caste player with performace supernal activated soul voice along with demon wracking shout( having increased her initiative with battle anthem in prior turns) and along with several other performance charms, single handedly destroyed all the demon emanations ( except the main body demon). However the twilight caste had summoned a magma kraken in a prior turn and everyone was wondering whether he would attack the others since he wanted to free the demon. But he changed his mind at the last minute and attacked (with all eight tentacles) the demon, forcing it away. He justified this with relevant intimacies

                          It was suprising because it seemed like the demon would be freed, most of the characters except for the zenith were open to freeing the demon, but that turned out to not be the case at all.

                          As far as the order of the anchors, they went to the trench, then the sea cave, and finally the mountain top. They also met the sea goddess first (who nobody liked), and then met the fire bird later (whom most largely agreed with).

                          Another interesting element was the dawn caste who had significant ties to Sijan and did not want to take any of the items in the tomb because that would make him no better than a tomb robber, a type of person that sijan does not tolerate.

                          In the end, it was fun, open ended, and had an interesting quandry about demons and what they were. I hope we get more adventures like this.


                          How can I know if what I claim I know to be true is rejecting the idea that there is something I might not know? How can I know if what I claim I don't know to be true is rejecting the idea that there is something I do know?
                          -Zhuangzi

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                          • #88
                            Very cool summary Ostarian, interesting!

                            So for those unfortunate few who missed out on this part of the KS, amyine have any idea when this becomes available for general purchase?


                            Blasphemy? No, it is not blasphemy. If God is as vast as that, he is above blasphemy; if He is as little as that, He is beneath it.
                            - Mark Twain, a Biography

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                            • #89
                              Originally posted by Janissary87 View Post
                              So for those unfortunate few who missed out on this part of the KS, amyine have any idea when this becomes available for general purchase?
                              It's available now, and it is great. One of my players is gonna give running it a try this Sunday so I can be a non-ST for a change.

                              ​(Incidentally, Stephen Lea Sheppard , this is a great adventure you've written, with solid compelling characters and no easy answers.)

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