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Can Someone Explain Rush?

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  • Can Someone Explain Rush?

    I understand the basic mechanics of it, if someone retreats from close or short range either by moving or a disengage action you follow them. But, as a combat action, when do you use it? Can you use it on an opponent, and then it "banks" until they try and retreat? I'm just not sure on the timing of it. If you could write up a combat scenario example or something that would be immensely helpful.

    Finally giving the game a chance after owning the book for a year or so lol so I'll probably have a ton of annoying noob questions.

    Tyzerg

  • #2
    If you're a Close-range fighter yourself (i.e., Melee, Brawl, and most MAs), you would use it when closing the distance between yourself and your intended opponent. Alternatively, when you're already at Close range, and your opponent is either a ranged fighter (especially an archer) or heavily injured and looking to prolong his lifespan, you might consider using Rush preemptively to make sure they can't escape.

    Let's say that Avalanche is a big guy with a big hammer, and Breeze is a smaller guy using a chakram. They start at Medium range to each other, and Avalanche gets to go first:
    1. Avalanche moves to Short range and uses Rush successfully, giving him a free "chase" Move later.
    2. Breeze Moves away to Medium. However, Avalanche uses his "chase" Move, keeping them at Short range. Breeze tries to attack, but misses.
    3. Avalanche Moves to Close range. He then deals a solid Withering attack on Breeze.
    4. Breeze knows he'll get demolished at Close range and he's a little more effective at Short range than Close, but Avalanche can cover a lot of ground. Maybe wounding him a little first will help? Attack! No, no it won't.
    5. Avalanche knows that Breeze is trying to get away. His player knows that if he Flurries Rush with Attack, both actions will suffer, and he only just overcomes Breeze's rolls. He will stick to Rushing for now, which he is successful at--granting him a "chase" Move.
    6. Breeze knows that, after two failed attacks, he'd better get the hell out of there. He manages to successfully Disengage, allowing him to Move away to Short, and granting him a "retreat" Move.
    7. Avalanche uses his "chase" Move to bring them back to Close
    8. Breeze uses his "retreat" Move to put them back at Short. Actions 6, 7, and 8 all happen on Breeze's turn.
    9. Avalanche Moves to Close and delivers a Decisive attack. Things are not going well for Breeze.

    So, by relying on his Rush action, Avalanche is able to keep Breeze at Close range and deal some damage to him without having to Flurry his actions.


    Burn Legend -- Advent of Yomi Wan http://burnlegend.blogspot.com/
    EX3 -- Dawn of Resurgent Sun https://resurgentsun.wordpress.com/

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    • #3
      Can you use it on an opponent, and then it "banks" until they try and retreat?
      Yeah, basically this is how it works. It's a bit odd conceptually, but generally seems to work okay. I wouldn't say it works brilliantly IMO, but it works a lot better than the movement rules did in 2nd ed (or, actually, a lot of RPGs when people start skirmishing against melee users).

      Glorious Sword of Dawn is running towards Lady Cynis Asana, archer extraordinaire. He's at medium range. He moves to short range, but thinks "in her turn, she'll move back and keep shooting at me." So, when he moves to short range (with his free reflexive move), he uses his action to roll Rush. They make opposed rolls. He wins.
      In Woodsy's go, she moves back a range band (so they're at medium range again), but Glorious Sword gets his free Rush movement and goes one band towards her. So, actually they are still at short range.
      Anyway, she shoots him and knocks off some initiative.
      But then in his turn, he moves towards her from short range to close range, and stabs her in the head. Splat.

      If Glorious Sword had failed his Rush roll, she'd have moved away to medium, shot him, then in his turn he'd move to short, but still not be in stabbing range.

      So, the upshot basically is that with successful Rushes you can chase down annoying archers who try to move back and shoot at you again and again.
      If you're rubbish at Rushing, you'll find it quite difficult, and they'll likely Mongol Horse Archer you to death without you getting to stab them. Or they'll just run away of course.

      Also, it's not 100% clear in the book, but Rush just lets you move once (without charms). So if, say, they manage to move back two range bands in their turn (because of charms or something), it won't be enough to catch them (unless you also have a charm that makes your Rush go two range bands). That's pretty rare though, generally it's just a matter of whether you can beat their dice roll.

      When two people are both using melee weapons or brawl though, there's not going to be a lot of rushes. It's just there to catch people running away from you.


      "Wizard of Oz, you really are a wizard!"

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      • #4
        Okay, awesome! So it does basically "bank" until the rusher needs to use it. Can you have more than one rush "banked" and can you "bank" rushes on more than one opponent?

        Tyzerg

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        • #5
          Can you have more than one rush "banked" and can you "bank" rushes on more than one opponent?
          As they only last one turn, and you can't flurry the same action, I can't see how. I suppose a demon using the PoM charm (which lets you flurry the same action) could maybe Rush two different people, yeah. But Rushing the same person twice wouldn't do much, as they'd both go off the next time the person moved one range band anyway.

          Maybe there are Solar charms that do things like let your Rush carry you two range bands or move the next two times the opponent moves... I think? Not sure.


          "Wizard of Oz, you really are a wizard!"

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          • #6
            Originally posted by The Wizard of Oz View Post
            As they only last one turn
            Oh, whoops. I missed that part. Is that just implied because Combat Actions only last a turn or is that listed somewhere else?

            Originally posted by The Wizard of Oz View Post
            Maybe there are Solar charms that do things like let your Rush carry you two range bands or move the next two times the opponent moves... I think? Not sure.
            Not sure, either. Could be cool Charms if they don't exist.

            Thanks,
            Tyzerg

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Tyzerg View Post
              Oh, whoops. I missed that part. Is that just implied because Combat Actions only last a turn or is that listed somewhere else?
              Huh. It doesn't actually say.

              Not sure, either. Could be cool Charms if they don't exist.
              Demon-Wasting Rush is one such Charm. It allows a Solar to Rush from Medium, and also allows her to "automatically move one range band closer to her target on his next two turns, in addition to her normal movement" (265). This does imply that a standard Rush lasts until the end of the target's next turn.

              Godspeed Steps allows you to Rush from three range bands away, instantly covering the ground between and permitting a follow-up attack with no Flurry penalty. Good stuff.



              Burn Legend -- Advent of Yomi Wan http://burnlegend.blogspot.com/
              EX3 -- Dawn of Resurgent Sun https://resurgentsun.wordpress.com/

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Tyzerg View Post
                Oh, whoops. I missed that part. Is that just implied because Combat Actions only last a turn or is that listed somewhere else?
                That's...actually an excellent question. I just checked the rules expecting the Rush description to state this so I could go "ha HA! it was right in front of you!" but it's, uh, not there. Disengage has a clause along these lines, but...Rush actually doesn't so far as I can see. Strictly speaking, I think it probably would bank indefinitely. That seems unintentional, but as written I'm struggling to find a statement to the contrary.


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                • #9
                  Originally posted by GreyEyes View Post

                  Huh. It doesn't actually say.
                  I think that's where 99% of my confusion came from.

                  Originally posted by GreyEyes View Post
                  Demon-Wasting Rush is one such Charm. It allows a Solar to Rush from Medium, and also allows her to "automatically move one range band closer to her target on his next two turns, in addition to her normal movement" (265). This does imply that a standard Rush lasts until the end of the target's next turn.
                  Yeah, I'd probably go off of that Charm as to what was intended of Rush.

                  Originally posted by GreyEyes View Post
                  Godspeed Steps allows you to Rush from three range bands away, instantly covering the ground between and permitting a follow-up attack with no Flurry penalty. Good stuff.
                  DOPE

                  Thanks for scouring for those Charms!

                  Tyzerg

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                  • #10
                    I just did a Ctrl F in the core book for "rush" to see if I found the rule somewhere else and while I didn't.... I'm kind of surprised at how often the words "crush" and "crushed" come up!


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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Tyzerg View Post
                      Yeah, I'd probably go off of that Charm as to what was intended of Rush.
                      I don't actually think that Demon-Wasting Rush is much help here, because none of the effects that it describes actually mirror the effects of a standard Rush. They look similar on a superficial level, but they are not in fact the same. This might be a question for the Ask the Devs thread.


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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Ferryman View Post

                        I don't actually think that Demon-Wasting Rush is much help here, because none of the effects that it describes actually mirror the effects of a standard Rush. They look similar on a superficial level, but they are not in fact the same. This might be a question for the Ask the Devs thread.

                        Yeah, I was hoping to avoid an actually dev clarification or errata on it and just use a dirty sorta backwards rule but I think you are right. Officially, DWR does not really work like a Rush at all. I'll see if I can get an answer in that thread, although I feel like I'm just one voice yelling in a large group of yellers.

                        Thanks!

                        Tyzerg

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                        • #13
                          Well you see, to the people of Creation, the Exalted might be considered modern day warriors with a mean, mean stride. A kind of... Tom Sawyer, with a mean, mean pride.

                          ​Though their minds are not for rent, don't put them down as arrogant. They just reserve their quiet defence while riding out the day's events on the river.

                          A what you say about their company is really what you say about society. You're trying to catch the mist, catch the myth, catch the mystery, catch the drift.

                          And sure, they can get by on you, and on the space that they invade.

                          No, their minds are not for rent to any god or government. They're always hopeful, yet discontent. They know changes aren't permanent, but change is.

                          They get by on you, and the energy you trade. They get right on to the friction of the day.


                          I have approximate knowledge of many things.
                          Watch me play Dark Souls III (completed)
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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Isator Levi View Post
                            Well you see, to the people of Creation, the Exalted might be considered modern day warriors with a mean, mean stride. A kind of... Tom Sawyer, with a mean, mean pride.

                            ​Though their minds are not for rent, don't put them down as arrogant. They just reserve their quiet defence while riding out the day's events on the river.

                            A what you say about their company is really what you say about society. You're trying to catch the mist, catch the myth, catch the mystery, catch the drift.

                            And sure, they can get by on you, and on the space that they invade.

                            No, their minds are not for rent to any god or government. They're always hopeful, yet discontent. They know changes aren't permanent, but change is.

                            They get by on you, and the energy you trade. They get right on to the friction of the day.

                            Okay, this is pretty amazing but fails to technically explain those crazy canucks!

                            Tyzerg

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                            • #15
                              Looks like Vance answered the question, and it is indeed just until your next turn. Still puzzles me that the text doesn't appear to actually say that, but I guess it was just an oversight.


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