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Does Martial Arts always descend from Brawl?

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  • Does Martial Arts always descend from Brawl?

    Would it break anything to allow styles that can't be used unarmed (Single Point Shining Into the Void, Steel Devil, Righteous Devil) to descend from Melee or Archery?

  • #2
    Neat! I'd go with it.

    Tyzerg

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    • #3
      As in, let people favour those styles by favouring Melee?
      I don't think it's game breaking. I think it's good, because it lets a Single Point stylist get Melee-based defences more easily. But not game-breaking. And it makes sense.


      "Wizard of Oz, you really are a wizard!"

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      • #4
        I think the logic behind MA branching from Brawl is that a specific MA style is no only a bunch of charms and the ability to miraculously be good with one weapon category. The MA merit to me, sounds like a lense that condenses the natural fighting ability (Brawl) of an individual and perfects it through a specific system of physical training that enables the practitioner to fight armed (favoring a certain the use of certain weapon depending on the flavor of the style), or unarmed. Except for Single Point and Steel Devil, I think?, all MA styles involve kicks and punches (with distinct aesthetics), which usually aren't things you do with archery, melee, or thrown.

        If Air Dragon Style branched from Thrown... that would possibly mean that you only know a set of martial art techniques for throwing a certain weapon and while you can argue that your hand to hand combat ability could come from the dots in Martial Arts... mmm it kinda feels strange to me that you are suddenly good at choking and sweeping people too, just because you started as a great dart thrower...

        But that's just my point of view, and I can see why people would think differently.

        I say, go with what best fits your character. I've found that being able to keep my flamepieces holstered and be able to fist fight a bunch of bandits with unarmed attacks that some recognize as "those goddamn gunslinger CQC techniques" is a nice alternative, and I like that flavor for my character. If RDS came out of archery I wouldn't feel as comfortable. But in the end, it's you and your players who matter.
        Last edited by Gonzo; 04-08-2017, 12:35 PM.


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        • #5
          The worst that happens is you miss out on the sweet MA synergy Charms in Brawl.


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          • #6
            TBH, while Brawl synergy is good (both for stuff like Thunderbolt Attack Prana, and just kicking people), using Single Point while having access to the Melee defence charms is probably better. Less fun though.


            "Wizard of Oz, you really are a wizard!"

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            • #7
              On this similar subject, I have even been considering getting rid of the MA merit and allowing anyone who has Brawl to use that to go into a specific MA style without needing the merit. Then, take the old Martial Artist merit and change how it works. Instead, the merit would allow any individual to choose a specific Martial Art style that keys to an Ability other than Brawl. If that Ability is a Favored or Caste ability, they get to treat the Charms from that MA style as if they were also Caste or Favored Charms. However, those MA Charms don't count as Charms of the linked Ability for the purposes of the Supernal keyword.

              For example, someone wants to pick up Ebon Shadow Style, but she's playing a Night Caste and doesn't want to favor Brawl. So she takes the MA merit and chooses Ebon Shadow Style which is linked to Stealth. Since Stealth is a Caste skill, this allows her to purchase dots in Ebon Shadow Style even though she doesn't have Brawl, and further allows her to purchase Ebon Shadow Charms as if they were Caste Charms.

              I am uncertain as to what kind of major effect this would have on the game, beyond making Martial Arts much more attractive for a lot of characters.

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              • #8
                Does Brawl have to be a Caste/Favored Ability in order to learn Martial Arts? I don't remember reading that.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Hakkonen View Post
                  Does Brawl have to be a Caste/Favored Ability in order to learn Martial Arts? I don't remember reading that.

                  No, you just need to buy the Martial Arts Merit, which requires a minimum of 1 dot in Brawl.


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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Robert Vance View Post
                    The worst that happens is you miss out on the sweet MA synergy Charms in Brawl.
                    It's been a while so I could be wrong, but I could have sworn that Brawl explicitly does not work with Martial Arts.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Hark View Post
                      It's been a while so I could be wrong, but I could have sworn that Brawl explicitly does not work with Martial Arts.
                      Sort of. Most Brawl charms follow the standard rule of 'it only works with the ability you used to purchase it'. But the proportion of Brawl charms that are ability-agnostic is higher than in other trees, thus, not having Brawl would mean the martial artist would miss out on those.


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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Hakkonen View Post
                        Does Brawl have to be a Caste/Favored Ability in order to learn Martial Arts? I don't remember reading that.
                        No, but having Brawl as favoured or caste makes Martial Arts favoured or caste. There's no other way to favour Martial Arts (for Solars, anyway. I think it will work the same for others except for Sidereals who'll all favour it, but that probably hasn't beend decided for sure yet).
                        (However, having Supernal Martial Arts does not give you Supernal Brawl, though it requires Brawl to be a Caste skill so that Martial Arts is a Caste skill)


                        "Wizard of Oz, you really are a wizard!"

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                        • #13
                          It's a minor-but-hardly-broken bonus for someone who specialized in a particular weapon if you can advance your MA as Caste/Favored based on the most-logical underlying ability instead of Brawl. It's a not-even-particularly-noticeable bonus if you allow some other Ability to sub for one dot of Brawl to get the merit. Mostly, it changes the nature/flavor of "kung-fu" in the setting slightly.

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                          • #14
                            I just let people use the Brawl ability for Martial Arts and to "unlock" a charm tree and form weapons they buy a MA merit specific to that MA style.

                            Much easier and simpler. That sacred cow should have been slaughtered, IMO.

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                            • #15
                              hmmmmmm I'd still make them buy the martial arts merit, but they don't need a dot in a specific skill, but they can only buy dots in a martial art they have the base skill for, so most would be brawl, but righteous devil style would require a dot of archery, and making a martial art caste/favored would require the base skill to be so, similar to how brawl and MA interact now. Each Martial art would then have a base skill it was built from. Because yeah not all martial arts are based on punching people.

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