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  • Equipment Tags

    I will say this, I like the idea of tags to help make eech piece of kit different from others, I just find its execution lacking. There just isn't enough tags to help seperate most of the weapons and armor. This is especially true for the armour in the game. I think I saw like 3 tags for armour, making reinforced breastplate and aeticulated plate identical.

  • #2
    Originally posted by videopete View Post
    I will say this, I like the idea of tags to help make eech piece of kit different from others, I just find its execution lacking. There just isn't enough tags to help seperate most of the weapons and armor. This is especially true for the armour in the game. I think I saw like 3 tags for armour, making reinforced breastplate and aeticulated plate identical.
    There is certainly an illusion of choice, as well as some questionable decisions made, when it comes to equipment.

    Like: a chopping sword is literally just an inferior axe. Axes are cheaper, can be thrown, and have the same tags as the chopping sword.

    Likewise, straight swords and slashing swords are exactly the same.
    Same thing with 3/4 of the Medium armor list: Hauberks, Lamellar and Reinforced Breastplates are exactly the same.

    Slings deal bashing damage? Huh? A pigeon-egg sized stone strikes with the same impact force as a .45 pistol round. Of course, most RPGs underestimate the killing power of a sling (I think most people think of "slingshots" when they see the word "sling"), so I give that one a pass. And, to be honest, Exalted is one of the few games where slings are actually quasi-close to being "realistic", so props.

    Clubs, hammers, maces and tetsubo/other big badass clubs deal "bashing" damage? Again: what? They also don't get bonuses to penetrating armor, while spears do? Eh?

    Shields just suck big fat ones all around.

    In my games (which, as always, are mortal, and pretty heavily simulationist), I did quite a bit of fiddling with the arms and armor list.

    All weapons do lethal damage, unless you stunt otherwise, meaning bashing damage is caused by fistfights and the environment.

    All swords, with the exception of the "short sword", got folded together. Different sword "types" are dependent on player description and stunts.

    Maces and hammers (and to a lesser extent, clubs), get the Piercing tag, while spears lose it. While spears could penetrate armor, it wasn't what they were "designed" for.

    I also kinda folded "short spears" and "regular spears" together. While "thrusting" spears tend to not be exactly balanced for throwing, I've hucked a full-sized (aka 7 foot shaft) out to 20 meters or so all day in a shieldwall with no problem.

    Shields got buffed: they now give the exact same Clash bonus as dual-wielding (so, a +2), as well as reducing the Difficulty when taking cover against Ranged attacks (, so a +1 to Defense for Light, and +2 for Heavy), but using a shield gives you a -1 Mobility penalty (as someone who has sparred with a 3 foot wide Migration Era roundshield, the thing is basically a giant sail: it catches the wind quite nicely, and can get stuck in bushes and doorframes and such if you aren't careful). I also added the Smashing tag, as checking someone with a shield to the chest or face is really effective at bowling them over. Finally, I dropped the frankly-stupid "shields do 2 less damage than other medium weapons cause lawl" thing.

    While I found tags interesting, they were too much of a pain in the ass to use all that often.
    Last edited by Boston123; 04-10-2017, 09:01 PM.

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    • #3
      I think the point is to straddle a line between "Weaponry is a stylistic decision" and "Some weapons do things other weapons can't."

      Also I think it does a fairly okay job of straddling that line, although I'd have preferred something that leans more toward the former design constraint.

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      • #4
        It fixed a problem that really didnt exist. While it ignored a bigger problem of the resources system.

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        • #5
          In my experience, any system that lists a ton of weapons ends up making a couple of them clearly superior choices, which defeats the purpose of having variety in the first place.

          Seriously, I'd rather not go back to the times when you were objectively an idiot for not using the Grand Goremaul.

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          • #6
            There are only three types of armour. The multiple examples are just to give you an idea what sort of real-world styles correspond to each type, so you can pick a setting-appropriate skin for it.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by videopete View Post
              It fixed a problem that really didnt exist.
              Balancing weapons and having no guidelines for creating new ones is very much a problem that existed in 2e, which was exacerbated by the fact that the entire edition basically had no time to be playtested due to release schedule constraints. Core-book weapon stats were, quite literally, "what looks about right".

              You not having the problem doesn't mean the problem doesn't exist.


              Jade-Screened Exalted Finding the Path
              Need a dice-roller? Check out Dicemat.

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              • #8
                Yeah, I agree, the weapons in 2nd ed were actually a big problem. Just using tags wouldn't be appropriate for a gritty realistic game, but I think it works very well for Exalted: there's little difference between weapons, but it does let you decide to choose something interesting like a whip if you want to do special stuff, or a giant club for bashing people into the floor.

                I do agree that it's odd that spears are armour piercing and maces aren't, when hitting fully armoured knights was exactly what maces were used for.
                And some weapons are just better than others, which kind of makes it not a choice. Which is a pity because the great thing about this system, unlike the old system, is that it's so that weapons are different, rather than better or worse, which gives you actual choice, rather than everyone always using short daiklaives or grand goremauls.


                "Wizard of Oz, you really are a wizard!"

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                • #9
                  The weapons that are not as good as others are only so by such a slim margin that I don't really think it's an issue. Since the game isn't being designed hyper-cometetively and the extra tags may not be what you wanna do at all times, I don't usually see a big deal. And since the differences are pretty minor, there's also not a big deal of reskinning.

                  I also think the ability to trivially reskin some equipment in teh current system is alsoa big reason I find it appealing, at least.

                  And stuff.

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                  • #10
                    Oh, I agree.
                    Actually, the reskinning and stuff is one of the best things about this system. Anytime someone comes up with some bizarre and exotic weapon, you can just say "It's a medium weapon, with the Reaching and Piercing tags" or whatever.
                    Also, fists are finally as good as other weapons. Completely unrealistic, but very genre-appropriate. In 2nd ed, fighting unarmed was severely subpar, which is very sad in a game with a big kung-fu thing going on.


                    "Wizard of Oz, you really are a wizard!"

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                    • #11
                      I'm pretty sure the whole "clubs doing bashing damage and not piercing" is also a genre thing.

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                      • #12
                        Yep.

                        I think that's something to consider there. Some weapons might look like others but with a tag here or there missing. Or costs more Resources or whatever. This isn't really a big deal though, since such things are so minor in the grand scheme of the game, they help to let them be stylistic choices. Not everything has to be "optimal". Espeically in a non-competetive game where again, the differences are minor.

                        And stuff.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by videopete View Post
                          It fixed a problem that really didnt exist. While it ignored a bigger problem of the resources system.
                          It's actually been a pretty large problem in the game. 1st Edition had certain optimal weapons, 2nd Edition had certain optimal weapons. Choice was very much an illusion previously. You picked the best weapon profile, the top-tier magical material, and that was that.

                          Tags layered on top of generic weapon profiles means a much better balance if you want to make weapons mostly a stylistic choice with a side-order of mechanical oomph. In general I tend to find that systems aiming for making all of the weapons mechanically distinct only ever succeed in making it easy to spot the best of the best while offering a long list of weapons no one will ever take.

                          While the current system isn't perfect (and short of just giving all weapons a single stat line few ever are) it gives each type of weapon its own cinematic flavour while making them all generally useful in a fight. They still have the advantage of having situations where they are more useful, but this is based less around their realistic role in combat and given a more over-the-top cinematic flavour.

                          All in all, it feels like exactly the kind of weapon system Exalted wants, and it makes creating new weapons a breeze without much risk of making a completely overpowered monster weapon.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Elfive View Post
                            I'm pretty sure the whole "clubs doing bashing damage and not piercing" is also a genre thing.
                            Clubs doing bashing I can understand. Grand Goremauls not being lethal is criminal.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Elfive View Post
                              I'm pretty sure the whole "clubs doing bashing damage and not piercing" is also a genre thing.
                              It is the names, isn't it.

                              We have bashing versus lethal damage because there's the odd idea that damage somehow isn't as bad if there's no external bleeding. "Broken bones? Concussion? Internal haemorrhaging? Nah! You'll be right mate. It didn't cut the skin so just walk it off. Wait, is that a paper cut? To the emergency ward before you bleed out or get infected!"*

                              It harks way back to Friar Tuck claiming it didn't break his vows of nonviolence if he only knocked people unconscious with a cudgel instead of spilling blood. And so DND clerics were restricted to blunt weapons because that is clearly the exact same thing.

                              ​Likewise piercing clearly evokes the image of stabbing holes into armour, which you don't do when you bludgeon someone with a wifflebat... I mean, tetsubo.

                              Sigh.


                              ---

                              ​[* Exalted do not even have to worry about bleeding out or getting infected. ]

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